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***Official*** Bangladesh in England

howardj

International Coach
In any other country, they'd be falling over themselves in their enthusiasm to get Pietersen into the Test Team. But not in England. It's like "no, let's totally over-analyse things, and just look for reasons not to pick him". I think some selectors take themselves too seriously, and think too much.
 

Magrat Garlick

Rather Mad Witch
howardj said:
In any other country, they'd be falling over themselves in their enthusiasm to get Pietersen into the Test Team. But not in England. It's like "no, let's totally over-analyse things, and just look for reasons not to pick him". I think some selectors take themselves too seriously, and think too much.
I doubt the Aussies would...
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
howardj said:
In any other country, they'd be falling over themselves in their enthusiasm to get Pietersen into the Test Team. But not in England. It's like "no, let's totally over-analyse things, and just look for reasons not to pick him". I think some selectors take themselves too seriously, and think too much.
Or maybe, just maybe, he's not one of the top batsmen available?
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's perfectly reasonable to pick Bell ahead of KP. They were neck and neck before the county season started, whoever was good enough to score the most runs played - Bell won convincingly.

I should also add Pietersen was out for zero today, lbw to a mediocre county plodder.
 

SpeedKing

U19 Vice-Captain
Scaly piscine said:
Looking through the recent games in reverse order first new ball spell (too much faff looking at later overs new ball), Bangladesh he got 1 wicket (9.2 overs), 1 wicket for the whole of the SA series (5.3 overs), 4 in the last Test against WI (9 wickets in the game - 5.6 and 7.3 in the 1st innings, 11.1, 13.2 in the 2nd), none in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Test. 1 against NZ in the 3 Tests (4.6).

I make that 7 wickets out of 26 new ball spells and most of those wickets were well into his spell. He'd be far more effective coming on after 10-14 overs I think. Not to mention whoever gets the new ball will be more effective than usual.
And Simon Hughes [is that his name, the analyst for C4] said something similar to that. Simon Jones can now swing the new ball, which Harmy and freddie cant seem to do with much promise. Just imagine harmy and Freddie bowling in tamdem for 14 overs. that is going to be an hour of pure brutal and potentially destructive bowling :D . Harnison being the speedstar and freddie being the trickstar with his impressive array of variations. do forgive me if i am starting to sound abit biased.

whereas Hoggy and Simon Jones can examine the batsmen's abilty to deal with swing. hoggy has been very impressive with the new ball and after Jones bowling in the last test, i dont think any batsmen [never mind the Bengali batsmen] can play that bowling. Might be abit of a stab in the dark but i feel it could be potentially much more incisive openning pairing than the two ATM
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Scaly piscine said:
I should also add Pietersen was out for zero today, lbw to a mediocre county plodder.
Again?!

So that's 383 in 10 innings then.

Seeing as that includes 2 centuries and a 50, I can see exactly why he wasn't selected.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
If the side were to be selected completely on this seasons form the team would read something like this...

Cook
Newman
Gallian
Bell
Joyce
Rikki
Foster
Giles
Harmison
Davies
Keedy

Fortunately the selectors don't work like that, KP's career average of over 50 would suggest that he's been performing to a high standard for a time and he and Bell have been marked as class players by the selectors - Bell made the better start to the season, he (rightly) got picked, but KP is waiting in the wings
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Richard said:
Let's take a look and see why, shall we?
First-innings:
Grant Flower - excellent Caddick Yorker.
as usual you misrecall.
rather it was a low full toss. flower was late on it, and completely missed it. and really grant flower has always looked at sea in english conditions as his avg of 4.50 and 13.25 on 2 tours of england show.

Richard said:
Campbell - another excellent delivery.
wtf?
did you watch that game? inside edge poked at a ball outside of stump. either you seem to call every delivery that swings an excellent delivery, or you are just deluded. how in the world you can call a wicket of an inside edge, anything other than poor technique, i'll never know.

Richard said:
Goodwin - yet another very good away-swinger, Gough this time.
outside the off stump, unnecessary slash. surprisng for someone like goodwin, who looked quite brilliant throughout the series.

Richard said:
Murphy - good delivery IIRR.
playing away from the body... poor stroke.

Richard said:
Second-innings:
Andy Flower - another excellent inswinger.
pulled off a graeme smith and trapped himself in front of the stumps. poor shot.

Richard said:
Johnson - another good, seaming delivery.
and just because it was a seaming delivery, it means that the batsman didnt play a poor shot to it is it? i cant quite remember how he got out in this inning but considering some of his other dismissals, i doubt it wouldnt have been a slash outside off stump.

Richard said:
Murphy - poor stroke, missed a straight ball
Streak - good delivery, good catch
Whittall - not a great stroke, match over by then
Mbangwa - dragged-on off the helmet
So all-in-all I'd say England bowled exceptionally and made a reasonable batting-line-up look like novices, as they did on plenty of other occasions throughout the summer to the West Indians..
and as you can see, any person who watched the match would be able to recall that the zimbabwian batting lineup made englands bowlers look brilliant. bowlers like giddins barely bowled a good ball all summer.

Richard said:
The second-innings at Trent Bridge was exceedingly poor (Nkala still bowled far better than he's ever bowled since that match) but the side still included Atherton, Hussain, Stewart, Caddick and Gough, whose performances at Lord's (along with Hick's and Giddins') were with the exception of Hussain very good.
Yes, in Ramprakash-the-opener, Knight-the-number-six, Flintoff, Schofield and Giddins (bowling as he did at Trent Bridge and Edgbaston) weren't Test-class or anything close to it, and once Vaughan, Thorpe, White and Cork are added it's a very good side.
I never once said England were as good at the start of the summer as we were at the end, simply that we played far, far better in that Test than we did in the recently concluded one.
yes thats glaringly obvious, but the fact is that zimbabwe players played some appalling strokes at lords. some like g.flower because they were incapable, others like campbell, goodwin etc because of nerves, and some like whitall, streak, gripper etc because they were rubbish.
and just because the side included 5 good players, it doesnt make the side good, especially considering how poor the other 6 were.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
marc71178 said:
Again?!

So that's 383 in 10 innings then.

Seeing as that includes 2 centuries and a 50, I can see exactly why he wasn't selected.
a bit strange to hear the aussies talking him up so much and saying that hes like 'adam gilchrist'.
considering its the aussies, i wouldnt be surprised if it was part of their master plan to get the english selectors to select pieterson(who mcgrath probably feels can be moulded like clay) over thorpe(whos caused them problems for years).
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
I actually think Pietersen is more likely to have success against McGrath than someone like Bell, because his attacking style can sometimes be effective, and batsmen who play McGrath with a defensive mindset invariably struggle. Warne though...

Bell is definately the better choice for now. Pietersen can come into the side when Thorpe retires, it's not exactly a long wait.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
well i'd wait for the ODI series before coming to any conclusions as to who should be picked bell or pieterson. yes i know ODis have no relation to tests but if pieterson hammers mcgrath and co all over the park in the ODI series i can see a case for including him ahead of bell.
as far as thorpe is concerned, id pick him over any player in england ATM.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
howardj said:
In any other country, they'd be falling over themselves in their enthusiasm to get Pietersen into the Test Team. But not in England. It's like "no, let's totally over-analyse things, and just look for reasons not to pick him". I think some selectors take themselves too seriously, and think too much.
I'm sure South Africa would pick him :D
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
tooextracool said:
considering its the aussies, i wouldnt be surprised if it was part of their master plan to get the english selectors to select pieterson(who mcgrath probably feels can be moulded like clay) over thorpe(whos caused them problems for years).
Thankfully the selectors have more sense than to do that!
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
what do you guys think will be Mark Butcher's fate in the coming months. With talks already about Thorpe glorious career coming to and end, Bell & KP challenging to secure spot in the england side not only for the Ashes but for subsequent tours of India & Pakistan this winter and beyond.

Also with Rob Key constantly reminding the selectors with runs for Kent things dont look do good for Butcher. I for one dont think he is finished but one wonders how is he going to get back into the england side, whenever he gets back he had better plunder runs for surrey
 

Jamee999

Hall of Fame Member
WHY THE ****ING HELL IS THIS BLOODY ****ING STUPID TEST ON ****ING SKY? WHICH ****ING GAY MORONIC ******S DECIDED THAT ****ING SKY SHOULD GET THIS STUPID ****ING TEST. I AM SO GOING TO GET ****ING BANNED FOR POSTING THIS BEFORE EACH ****ING GAY TEST NEXT ****ING YEAR
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
aussie said:
what do you guys think will be Mark Butcher's fate in the coming months. With talks already about Thorpe glorious career coming to and end, Bell & KP challenging to secure spot in the england side not only for the Ashes but for subsequent tours of India & Pakistan this winter and beyond.

Also with Rob Key constantly reminding the selectors with runs for Kent things dont look do good for Butcher. I for one dont think he is finished but one wonders how is he going to get back into the england side, whenever he gets back he had better plunder runs for surrey
On the face of it, things don't look good for Butcher. However, being an Ashes series, we can probably expect a few injuries, so there may yet be an opening for him this summer. Beyond that, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tresco taking a winter off from touring.
 

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