***Official*** Bangladesh in England

[tooextracool]

As for comparing them to Zim 2000... bull. Zimbabwe in 2000 were a reasonable side and there was a possibility of them doing at Lord's as they did at Trent Bridge. Fortunately, England played a very fine game (harbinger of most of the year to come) and hammered them. A far better comparison would be Zim 2003 - they shouldn't even have been there, either.

did they? no dispute that zim 2000 were better than b'desh now but i
thought england were especially poor that series and they carried it on to edgbaston vs
WI. zimbabwe played every bit as poorly in the first test, with the exception of heath streak, as bangladesh did this series. it was only in the 2nd test where goodwin in particular played an absolute blinder and england once again played poorly. if goodwin were still playing test cricket now, hed be amongst the top few players in the world IMO.
it was only when england brought in the changes against the WI during the series(tresco for ramps,thorpe for knight, white for flintoff, cork for giddins and vaughan for schofield) that they started to show drastic improvements.

 

[Richard]

Fact is, Gough, Caddick and (astonishingly) Giddins bowled extremely well at Lord's, then very very poorly in the next 2 games.
Yes, scoring runs wasn't in the slightest difficult against Strang, Mbangwa and Johnson but with Streak bowling less above-average and more exceptionally and Murphy bowling far better than his figures suggested it still made the run-scoring an achievement worthy of being taken seriously.

 

[tooextracool]

Fact is, Gough, Caddick and (astonishingly) Giddins bowled extremely well at Lord's, then very very poorly in the next 2 games..

no they didnt, zimbabwe batted far better than they did at lords. seriously how in the world can you claim that a side that got out for 83 and 123 on a wicket where england scored 415, didnt bat poorly i'll never know.

Yes, scoring runs wasn't in the slightest difficult against Strang, Mbangwa and Johnson but with Streak bowling less above-average and more exceptionally and Murphy bowling far better than his figures suggested it still made the run-scoring an achievement worthy of being taken seriously.

it did, but it doesnt change the fact that being dismissed for 147 against an attack including nkala,mbamgwa, whitall,johnson and murphy involved some very poor batting. and the same pattern followed until the changes were brought in against the WI.
do you seriously believe knight, ramps(opening), schofield, flintoff(back then), hick & giddins were part of a quality test side?
no they werent.
on the other hand vaughan, thorpe, white & even tresco back then sounds more like a quality side.

 

[Langeveldt]

Hi Langeveldt

Sorry but I thought I covered the point socio-whatever angle. The income for whom? The Bangladeshi cricketers - er, well compared to other nations their income is meagre, but then possibly it is not so meagre when compared to average earnnings in that poor country; the Bangladeshi Cricket Board - they were not going to look a gift-horse in the mouth. Would you say that other sides will make a profit from a tour of Bangladesh - very doubtful. I fully realise that the ICC do not give a toss - they never have (and I am not getting back on my Zim soapbox here). It would not surprise me one iota if all of a sudden Kenya were granted test status, despite clear evidence that their cricket - in terms of ... well in all respects really - has gone backwards at a rate of knots in the last couplke of years or so.

As to who cares if it devalues cricket, you and I do, don't we? As do millions of other cricket-lovers who despair of the way in which the beautiful game is being maladministered - big-time.

I read earlier that another contributor said that all test nations had to start somewhere, and this is true. Anyone with an interest in the history of test cricket will know that NZ went through years without very much success, but there were always good players coming through and gradually NZ became a pretty good test nation, as it is now. I'm sorry but I simply cannot see Bangladesh, with its myriad social problems, its chaotic infrastructure and its abject poverty, being able to take the same journey as NZ. But, hey, I would dearly love to be proved wrong.

In the meantime, I'll stick with what I said before.

Ciao

Peter

Good point... By income, I meant fat cat Dalmiya must have been caring about both massive TV revenues, sponsorship, and of course Asian power at the voting table when Bangladesh were promoted.. I can't see another reason at all.. In a country of 140 million, how many do you think are actually able to realize their talents playing good cricket? The numbers must be absolutely tiny.. I've just seen the best domestic game of my life, lets hope the crowds stay away from Chester-le-Street where the test match brings a huge reduction in quality..

 

[aussie]

Fact is, Gough, Caddick and (astonishingly) Giddins bowled extremely well at Lord's, then very very poorly in the next 2 games.

did you watch that test match ZIM batted far better than they did in the lord's test.

 

[Richard]

no they didnt, zimbabwe batted far better than they did at lords. seriously how in the world can you claim that a side that got out for 83 and 123 on a wicket where england scored 415, didnt bat poorly i'll never know.

Let's take a look and see why, shall we?
First-innings:
Grant Flower - excellent Caddick Yorker
Gripper - even better away-swinger, RUD if there ever was one
Campbell - another excellent delivery
Goodwin - yet another very good away-swinger, Gough this time
Guy Whittall - poor stroke (still a bit unlucky), bottom-edge onto the stumps
Streak - average shot, reasonable delivery
Strang - can't remember
Johnson - skied shot when he had little alternative but to have a go
Murphy - good delivery IIRR
Second-innings:
Grant Flower - poor stroke, missed a straight ball
Gripper - great delivery, doubtful catch but certainly good bowling
Campbell - not the best stroke, missed it by a mile, but certainly an excellent delivery
Goodwin - fantastic delivery, wide of the crease and really straightened, plumb
Andy Flower - another excellent inswinger
Johnson - another good, seaming delivery
Murphy - poor stroke, missed a straight ball
Streak - good delivery, good catch
Whittall - not a great stroke, match over by then
Mbangwa - dragged-on off the helmet
So all-in-all I'd say England bowled exceptionally and made a reasonable batting-line-up look like novices, as they did on plenty of other occasions throughout the summer to the West Indians.

it did, but it doesnt change the fact that being dismissed for 147 against an attack including nkala,mbamgwa, whitall,johnson and murphy involved some very poor batting. and the same pattern followed until the changes were brought in against the WI.
do you seriously believe knight, ramps(opening), schofield, flintoff(back then), hick & giddins were part of a quality test side?
no they werent.
on the other hand vaughan, thorpe, white & even tresco back then sounds more like a quality side.

The second-innings at Trent Bridge was exceedingly poor (Nkala still bowled far better than he's ever bowled since that match) but the side still included Atherton, Hussain, Stewart, Caddick and Gough, whose performances at Lord's (along with Hick's and Giddins') were with the exception of Hussain very good.
Yes, in Ramprakash-the-opener, Knight-the-number-six, Flintoff, Schofield and Giddins (bowling as he did at Trent Bridge and Edgbaston) weren't Test-class or anything close to it, and once Vaughan, Thorpe, White and Cork are added it's a very good side.
I never once said England were as good at the start of the summer as we were at the end, simply that we played far, far better in that Test than we did in the recently concluded one.

 

[Richard]

did you watch that test match ZIM batted far better than they did in the lord's test.

Yes, I did. Fact is, they didn't bat especially poorly at Lord's, the bowling was just outstanding.
And they were then given the chance to bat well at Trent Bridge and Goodwin especially took it.

 

[Scaly piscine]

England's squad for the NatWest Series:

Vaughan (captain), Tresco, Strauss, Collingwood, Pietersen, Flintoff, Solanki (drinks waiter hopefully), G Jones (wicket-keeper), Giles, S Jones, Harmison, Kabir Ali, Gough, Lewis

I hope Lewis, Solanki and Kabir Ali are the guys left out. As I've said before I would have thought S Jones would be just as good in ODIs as Tests, maybe England were just waiting til he got his confidence up.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Looks like it's between S Jones, Lewis and Kabir Ali for one place, and S Jones is the favourite after his showing at Lord's the other day. Unless he bowls poorly in the next Test, or unless Jon Lewis plays and takes eight-for, he'll play.

Kabir Ali batted at 7 yesterday for Worcs - what's that all about? He's hardly an all-rounder.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Kabir batted at 3/4 the other week. Seems to be a masterplan to get him to slog the damn thing...

 

[Scaly piscine]

Looks like it's between S Jones, Lewis and Kabir Ali for one place, and S Jones is the favourite after his showing at Lord's the other day. Unless he bowls poorly in the next Test, or unless Jon Lewis plays and takes eight-for, he'll play.

Kabir Ali batted at 7 yesterday for Worcs - what's that all about? He's hardly an all-rounder.

I really hope it is as straight forward a selection as this, the world cup is in WI as well which is another factor in favour of S Jones but I feel somehow England will throw a duffer in as usual. I'd hope the taff has been working on his batting over the off-season as well, I think he'd be as handy as Giles with a bit of effort.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Going by the way he treated Anil Kumble with utter disdain when he made his Test debut, I'd say there's some potential there. Certainly more natural ability than Hoggard, anyway, he just needs to work as hard as Hoggy does and he'll be a competent no 9 or even 8 if necessary.

As for England throwing in a duffer, they'll probably decide to ignore Ed Joyce completely until his first-class form slips, and then they'll throw him into the World Cup at no3 - going by past World Cups, that is. Recent selection policy has become a little more sound, although the selectors are still confused about our best ODI side. Which I believe is Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan, Pietersen, Flintoff, Collingwood, Prior, Giles, S Jones, Gough, Harmison, by the way.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Joyce doesn't qualify for England until July 1

 

[SpeedKing]

Going by the way he treated Anil Kumble with utter disdain when he made his Test debut, I'd say there's some potential there. Certainly more natural ability than Hoggard, anyway, he just needs to work as hard as Hoggy does and he'll be a competent no 9 or even 8 if necessary.

As for England throwing in a duffer, they'll probably decide to ignore Ed Joyce completely until his first-class form slips, and then they'll throw him into the World Cup at no3 - going by past World Cups, that is. Recent selection policy has become a little more sound, although the selectors are still confused about our best ODI side. Which I believe is Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan, Pietersen, Flintoff, Collingwood, Prior, Giles, S Jones, Gough, Harmison, by the way.

That side looks good but i do think Lewis is going to play the first match. If you saw Graveney's interview on sky today, he looked like him [Lewis] and pietersen were alreadly penciled in for the first ODI judging by the way he was talking about them. Also, he was talking rather unfavourably abut Thorpe which is starting to make me think the thorpe won't see out the summer. He said that Thorpe will always be in the best side then quickly said that he has to maintain his form all summer. I might be a little prematurely conclusive but that is what i think he felt IMHO

 

[SpeedKing]

Joyce doesn't qualify for England until July 1

All of a sudden so many quality players acnnot even get in the England side. happy days i say, happy days, enjoy it while it lasts you English fans

 

[sledger]

will do, but hopefully these days will last a good long while yet.

 

[marc71178]

All of a sudden so many quality players acnnot even get in the England side. happy days i say, happy days, enjoy it while it lasts you English fans

With both Joyce and Pietersen we're still waiting to see if they prove to be quality.

 

[Scaly piscine]

That side looks good but i do think Lewis is going to play the first match. If you saw Graveney's interview on sky today, he looked like him [Lewis] and pietersen were alreadly penciled in for the first ODI judging by the way he was talking about them. Also, he was talking rather unfavourably abut Thorpe which is starting to make me think the thorpe won't see out the summer. He said that Thorpe will always be in the best side then quickly said that he has to maintain his form all summer. I might be a little prematurely conclusive but that is what i think he felt IMHO

Graveney usually talks a load of tosh tho, although I do feel it is almost inevitable that they'll play Lewis at some point - seems like an almost token selection to show that they're looking at who's doing well in domestic cricket.

 

[badgerhair]

Also, he was talking rather unfavourably abut Thorpe which is starting to make me think the thorpe won't see out the summer. He said that Thorpe will always be in the best side then quickly said that he has to maintain his form all summer. I might be a little prematurely conclusive but that is what i think he felt IMHO

Since Thorpe's effectively announced his retirement from international cricket at the end of the season, there is no reason to retain him in the side in the name of consistency for the winter tours because he won't be on them.

Which means that they have no reason to be sentimental about him. If he fails in the first couple of Tests, then it's bye-bye Thorpey and hello KP (or possibly Ed).

Unless Thorpe scores at least 400 runs and it's the others who screw up, whatever decision the selectors make about Horpe and KP will be regarded as the reason we lost the Ashes, assuming we do - though it will perhaps be hailed as the reason we won them if the miracle occurs.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[aussie]

Graveney usually talks a load of tosh tho, although I do feel it is almost inevitable that they'll play Lewis at some point - seems like an almost token selection to show that they're looking at who's doing well in domestic cricket.

thats true, but somehow i rather simon jones in the ODI team, if he can develop his potential with the bat, he would be perfect.

Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughan
Pietersen
Flintoff
Collingwood
Jones
Giles
Gough
Jones
Harmison

One day i hope to see ENG ODI team like this