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***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
SpaceMonkey said:
I guess Lee's form with the White ball made them stick him in, but surely they should have known he always does well with the white ball but just doesnt produce consistantly with the red one. Shrug.
Yeah, that's what I couldn't understand. While Lee has bowled well in patches, he certainly hasn't been as effective with the red as he has with the white. I thought the selectors were smarter than that and realised that previously, when Lee has been bowling exceptionally in ODIs he hasn't produced in test cricket.
 

Top_Cat

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Tait - Alright debut, best of the Aussie pacemen this game so far. Which isn`t good.
You'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Tait has actually done anything wrong in this, his first Test, coming into the side when his team in struggling. He's been the pick of the Aussie bowlers, certainly looking far more threatening overall than the others. Characterising his game as 'alright' is very harsh.

Anywa, I honestly think Australia has some serious morale problems right now. And I bet we only find out after the Ashes what they are. Certainly they don't appear cohesive and you get the feeling that the reported (and subsequently denied) tension between Warne and Ponting isn't just made up. Ponting said a few times after his 156 stuff along the lines of 'someone had to stand up' and I think that he was telegraphing to his players that he doesn't have much faith in them right now.

And the fact that a supposed 'zero-tolerance' on no-balls in the nets has resulted in MORE no-balls in the match suggests further tension. No champion team would tolerate one bowler bowling so many but with all four of Kasper, McGrath, Lee and Gillespie having troubles at various stages, one can't help but feel that the Aussie are lacking some pride in their performances. They've brought about their own downfall with some lacklustre shots against fantastic bowling, yes, but to capitulate so badly is not something any champion team would be proud of. Add a bunch of CRUCIAL missed chances and I strongly suspect all is not well in the Aussie camp. It's often said that the best sides do the little things right; well no-balls, catches and not giving your wickets away count as 'little things'.

But let's not take anything away from England. They've bowled, batted and fielded better than the Aussies, with or without McGrath in the side. They've attacked and when they're got a bit of a roll on, they've managed to keep it happening past the end of their innings and into the field. They have one particular marker of a potentially great team and that's apart from doing their job really well, they've also prevented their opposition from doing theirs. The Aussies are below their best but that's only because the English haven't allowed them opportunity to play anywhere near their best. And they've done the 'little things' really well. As a measure for how well they're bowling, I personally can't think of any one or two players who, had they been in the side from the start, would have made much of a difference. England would almost certainly had played this well against anyone. McGrath in the side for the whole series may have helped and certainly I think the chopping and changing of Kasper ("You're in! No sorry, you're out..... WAIT! You're IN AGAIN!" has affected his form but really, even with McGrath in the side, England wouldn't have been affected too much.

And those baying for the selection of Jacques; get a grip. He's not even a certain starter for NSW yet, let alone a Test prospect!
 
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Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Top_Cat said:
You'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Tait has actually done anything wrong in this, his first Test, coming into the side when his team in struggling. He's been the pick of the Aussie bowlers, certainly looking far more threatening overall than the others. Characterising his game as 'alright' is very harsh.
Yeah, have to agree. He bowled really well Thursday night, I didn't get to see much of him last night, but from what I've seen he was the best of the bowlers. Unfortunately he may only get one bowl on his debut.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Top_Cat said:
And those baying for the selection of Jacques; get a grip. He's not even a certain starter for NSW yet, let alone a Test prospect!
I think Hussey should be picked ahead of Jacques right now, but come on, clearly he's a certain starter for NSW. He has a FC average in the mid 50s and was dominant last Pura Cup season, as well as currently dominating for Yorkshire.
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I would fully support Hussey coming into the side, but I think it's pretty obvious it is going to happen.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
andyc said:
Bucknor has made some shockers. I just don't get it, these umpires are meant to be the best in the business, yet they miss obvious edges. One or two isn't too bad but when they're happening so consistently something should be done. Obviously Australia has received the worst of these, but England has had a few dodgy decisions against them too.
That's easy - you see them as obvious because you see the replays a dozen times. You hear them because of the 'effects' microphones in the stumps that are amplified.

The umpire gets one chance - and he's got to be looking at the popping crease for no-balls then lift his head up and re-focus on the ball whilst it's in flight.

Perhaps the answer is to automate the detection of no-ball (although Australia pretty well had the production of it automated on Thursday morning), although having slept on James's suggestion, hell, yes. If the technology is there, use it. At least it'll shut whiny up.
 
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andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
luckyeddie said:
That's easy - you see them as obvious because you see the replays a dozen times. You hear them because of the 'effects' microphones in the stumps that are amplified.

The umpire gets one chance - and he's got to be looking at the return crease for no-balls then lift his head up and re-focus on the ball whilst it's in flight.

Perhaps the answer is to automate the detection of no-ball (although Australia pretty well had the production of it automated on Thursday morning), although having slept on James's suggestion, hell, yes. If the technology is there, use it. At least it'll shut whiny up.
Yeah, we do have more time to go over it and all, but you have to admit that some decisions that have gone for and against both teams have been a bit iffy. But that no-ball idea is a good one, it would make the umpire's job easier, and shouldn't be too hard to regulate. The only conceivable problem may be that as it is now, when the umpire calls it, the batsman may have a chance to react to the call and play a different shot, although that doesn't happen very much as it is.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
andyc said:
Any chance of rain guys?
It's cloudy this morning.

I flew over Trent Bridge last night as our plane circled round to land at East Midlands Airport. That 10/10 cloud is actually 3 or 4 thin layers of cloud, and it doesn't seem to be thick enough at any level (we flew at 19000 feet back from Ireland last night and we were STILL below at least one layer).

There was talk that it might rain on Monday, but will the game last that long?
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
andyc said:
Yeah, we do have more time to go over it and all, but you have to admit that some decisions that have gone for and against both teams have been a bit iffy. But that no-ball idea is a good one, it would make the umpire's job easier, and shouldn't be too hard to regulate. The only conceivable problem may be that as it is now, when the umpire calls it, the batsman may have a chance to react to the call and play a different shot, although that doesn't happen very much as it is.
Nail, meet head.

Absolutely spot-on. The batsman ought to have time to react to the no-ball and have a waft without fear of dismissal, but again there just isn't enough time to react.

That's how much time the umpire has to re-align from checking the no-ball, pick up the flight and focus on the ball before it pitches. He's then got to keep a mental picture of the point of impact on the pitch, watch the deviation, judge whether it strikes the batsman on the pad or whether he has hit it, whether that point was in line of wicket to wicket if contact with the pads comes first, keep in mind the point of impact relative to the stumps, extrapolate from the pitching position beyond the point of impact on the pad to determine whether the ball would have hit the stumps or not (keeping in mind other factors such as whether the point of pitching was outside leg stump, whether the poiint of contact was outside off stump and whether or not the batsman was playing a shot or not), what the height was and so on and so on and so on.

All in under half a second.

He can't, of course. He has to rely on instinct and judgement brought about by years and years of experience.

We, on the other hand, can just watch the ball and let television tell us the rest.
 

greg

International Debutant
Craig said:
Your not the only one - how on earth was Geriant Jones (IIRC it was him or Flintoff) was not out caught behind after lunch I will never know. And if you took Richard's first chance theroy in place then Jones did not deserve his 85 as he would have out there and then. But credit to him for going on and gett 85, as Boycott said he is a lot better batsman then what gives justice to himself and he should prove so. Flintoff's innings was another showing of his class as a batsman alone.
He hit the ground. Technology was massively inconclusive about whether he hit the ball as well. There was certainly no deviation. There was also no tell tale sign from the batsman of looking immediately behind him. All in all a pretty difficult decision. And it may even have been a brilliant one!
 
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greg

International Debutant
Mister Wright said:
Catches win matches.

Pretty tough to lay all the blame on the batsman and bowlers. If we had of taken our catches, it could have made things easier on them and more pressure on the English bats and our batsman mightn't have been looking at daunting totals.
But catches ALWAYS get dropped in situations where the bowlers have no control. When the bowlers are on top and batsmen are struggling to break free every fielder has a sense that the ball will come to them every ball, and unsurprisingly they take them as a result. In comparison the Aussie bowlers are just not looking like taking wickets and it comes as a shock when they create a chance. And the catches go down. As they do and always have done in every form of cricket throughout history.
 

Craig

World Traveller
greg said:
He hit the ground. Technology was massively inconclusive about whether he hit the ball as well. There was certainly no deviation. There was also no tell tale sign from the batsman of looking immediately behind him. All in all a pretty difficult decision. And it may even have been a brilliant one!
I suppose that is a fair point. I have done some umpiring in the past (admitley it was indoor cricket) and I know how tough it is and Bucknor only has one look at the ball and has a split decision to make and I guess he thought he didn't nick it. Replay's showed there was a nick though.
 

PY

International Coach
Craig said:
Replay's showed there was a nick though.
That's the point Greg was making I think. Technology didn't show conclusively either way because he hit the ground.

When I saw it, I automatically triggered Jones but I'm not there in the heat of the moment.
 

Craig

World Traveller
The question I have follow forum members is does Shaun Tait's run-up and follow-through look unusual? His run up looks like a quick jog up to the crease and 'bang' and then basically stops as he start's his follow through?

Oh and Rich (Langeveldt) if you ever have one of those days where you are batting and bowling poorly remember that it was only about 3-4 years ago he was struggling to make his mark in Adelaide C grade cricket and look where he is (now before Corey comes and say's something this is going off his cricinfo player profile).
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Craig said:
The question I have follow forum members is does Shaun Tait's run-up and follow-through look unusual? His run up looks like a quick jog up to the crease and 'bang' and then basically stops as he start's his follow through?
Yeah, he doesn't exactly make the most of it, but that comes with having an unorthodox action generally I suppose.
 

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
greg said:
But catches ALWAYS get dropped in situations where the bowlers have no control. When the bowlers are on top and batsmen are struggling to break free every fielder has a sense that the ball will come to them every ball, and unsurprisingly they take them as a result. In comparison the Aussie bowlers are just not looking like taking wickets and it comes as a shock when they create a chance. And the catches go down. As they do and always have done in every form of cricket throughout history.
What's your point?
 

greg

International Debutant
Craig said:
I suppose that is a fair point. I have done some umpiring in the past (admitley it was indoor cricket) and I know how tough it is and Bucknor only has one look at the ball and has a split decision to make and I guess he thought he didn't nick it. Replay's showed there was a nick though.
The replays we got didn't show that. They didn't show the ultra slow mo which would have told us (a la Ponting's LBW) though.
 

Craig

World Traveller
I was watching on SBS which is the Channel 4 feed and the on the replay of the decision it look to me straight up that Jones had nicked.
 

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