Neil Pickup
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Sorry, I said "lose to". I meant "get annihilated by".Neil Pickup said:
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*Official* Australia in decline thread
- Thread starter MrPerko
- Start date
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
aussie
k maybe this crop of under -19 lost but the last set won the tournament, but to me neil remember australia have won the most under 19 world cups. They won the first in 1988, the second in 1998 and the fourth in 2002 while they were semi-fianlist in 2000 and performance last year was dismal
k maybe this crop of under -19 lost but the last set won the tournament, but to me neil remember australia have won the most under 19 world cups. They won the first in 1988, the second in 1998 and the fourth in 2002 while they were semi-fianlist in 2000 and performance last year was dismal
Neil Pickup
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England won recently and the vast majority of the team has done next to nothing...
Neil Pickup
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Under 19 World Cup Final, 1998aussie said:
Winning England team: SD Peters, RWT Key, PJ Franks, *OA Shah, GP Swann, CP Schofield, GR Haywood, GR Napier, JC Powell, +NJ Wilton, RJ Logan.
Sum total of no International successes.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
aussie
well thats our england and one instance when australia won in 1988 under damien martyn there was numerous success out of that team, in the 2000 tournament when india won their are guys like yuvraj and kaif who have international success to some degree, in 2002 their are guys like white, bird, cosgrove who have been touted for international sucess while the pakistanis that won in 2004 their success is yet to be seen. So if you are trying to make the point that under 19 success doesn't lead to international sucess u cant say that
well thats our england and one instance when australia won in 1988 under damien martyn there was numerous success out of that team, in the 2000 tournament when india won their are guys like yuvraj and kaif who have international success to some degree, in 2002 their are guys like white, bird, cosgrove who have been touted for international sucess while the pakistanis that won in 2004 their success is yet to be seen. So if you are trying to make the point that under 19 success doesn't lead to international sucess u cant say that
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
By being able to see all these guys bowl, that were the conclusion comes from. Johnson and Bird are far from finished products whereas Malinga is allot closer to the finished product. Well White i've seen him bowl for the last three season in Australia since he has taken over the captain he has gotten worse as bowlers. When he does make it to the International Stage it will most likey be as a Batsmen, who can also be a 5th bowler. His bowling will never come up to international standard, unless he changes it dramatically.aussie said:
Well i seen allot of Tait bowl and i really can't see how he is faster then Malinga, but i guess he has to be clocked before u can make an accurate assumption. IMO Bird and Johnson are both faster, well Johnson was when he first came on the scene but from what i saw of him a couple weeks ago his lost a bit a pace.aussie said:
I guess u saw Suraj on a bad day which fair enough, but u should make ur assumption on a player after one game. For me Doherty and White hasn't really improved since they came onto domestic stage, they were bowling better when they started then right now. Even so i do rate Doherty, but he doesn't have as much variation as Suraj. For me the spin bowler that comes the closest to Suraj in Australia is jason Kjerza from NSW. Also Suraj was also a star in youth cricket as well.
Last edited:
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
Too soon to start picking sides for the future, who knows their could be another Clarke come through, or Warne. If u asked someone to pick a Australian team for the 2003 WC in 1996, do u think u would of had the same squad. Most people would of thought Slats, and the Waugh twins were 1st picks. Brett Lee wasn't on the scene yet and most people would of had either his brother in the sqaud. Too much will happen to be start predicting squads.aussie said:
Also on ur other replay, the fact that ur an Australian hasn't got anything to do with the fact that u think the Australian bowlers are better. just a thought
Black Thunder
School Boy/Girl Captain
The thing that sets Australia apart is the set up of cricket in this country, and the amount of money CA has in their accounts to pour into the sport.
Unlike back in 48 when Australia were dominating, or the 80's when the Windies dominated, cricket wasn't proffesional then. Teams really didn't train - the players worked day jobs and trained two days a week with just basic net and training sessions. Basically, whichever country was lucky enough to have the most amount of cricketing talent around would be the best in the world.....
But now with the amount of money being poured in players have training regimes tailor-made to suit them exactly and they can train 3-4 times a week and more. There is copious amounts of data on each member of a test team which gives the coaches an indication of where and how they can improve. There is a cricket academy set up with specialist coaches designed to further young people as cricketers.
The way club cricket is set up in Australia you will always make it through the ranks if your good enough. There's no sort of mish mash of semi-pro/am leagues around the country, full amatuer comps, 2nd XI comps etc,. Each state has their designated grade competition from where the state team is picked. These grade comps have anywhere between 8 and 20 teams. In Sydney, there are 5 grades - i don't know how many grades in other states.
I.e. i'm playing in 4th grade this season mainly of that competition. If me, or one of my teammates, has a good couple of seasons and works our way into 1st grade, then we are only one step away from getting in the NSW squad. And you will get found out because cricket is a game where performances can be analysed well - player a scored 800 runs @ 45 last season, played b scored 1000 runs @ 40...... which one do we prefer to from second grade to fill the vacant number 6 spot in first grade.
To get into a state team you have to work your way up through the grades. Talented players may get picked straight into first grade when they're about 16, other guys will start in 4th and with good performances their club push them through to first grade in due time. But eventually, if your good enough you will get there. Other countries seem to pick players into FC cricket straight out of school, or from a good under 19 international series.
The only other country which is set up as good as Australia is England, but they don't quite have the streamlined way of progressing through to county cricket - at least according to the Poms we have coming out playing for us. But they've set up that academy, they have the money to make it run well and now due to their success there is a bit of popularity.
Other countries just don't have the money the ACB or ECB have (India do, but they're just so disorganised it's redicolous). And in society, where the "rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer" that will also happen in cricket, and i do feel Australia and England will just run away from world cricket, with only possibly India (with organisation) and maybe (big big big big maybe) South Africa will go with them.
Unlike back in 48 when Australia were dominating, or the 80's when the Windies dominated, cricket wasn't proffesional then. Teams really didn't train - the players worked day jobs and trained two days a week with just basic net and training sessions. Basically, whichever country was lucky enough to have the most amount of cricketing talent around would be the best in the world.....
But now with the amount of money being poured in players have training regimes tailor-made to suit them exactly and they can train 3-4 times a week and more. There is copious amounts of data on each member of a test team which gives the coaches an indication of where and how they can improve. There is a cricket academy set up with specialist coaches designed to further young people as cricketers.
The way club cricket is set up in Australia you will always make it through the ranks if your good enough. There's no sort of mish mash of semi-pro/am leagues around the country, full amatuer comps, 2nd XI comps etc,. Each state has their designated grade competition from where the state team is picked. These grade comps have anywhere between 8 and 20 teams. In Sydney, there are 5 grades - i don't know how many grades in other states.
I.e. i'm playing in 4th grade this season mainly of that competition. If me, or one of my teammates, has a good couple of seasons and works our way into 1st grade, then we are only one step away from getting in the NSW squad. And you will get found out because cricket is a game where performances can be analysed well - player a scored 800 runs @ 45 last season, played b scored 1000 runs @ 40...... which one do we prefer to from second grade to fill the vacant number 6 spot in first grade.
To get into a state team you have to work your way up through the grades. Talented players may get picked straight into first grade when they're about 16, other guys will start in 4th and with good performances their club push them through to first grade in due time. But eventually, if your good enough you will get there. Other countries seem to pick players into FC cricket straight out of school, or from a good under 19 international series.
The only other country which is set up as good as Australia is England, but they don't quite have the streamlined way of progressing through to county cricket - at least according to the Poms we have coming out playing for us. But they've set up that academy, they have the money to make it run well and now due to their success there is a bit of popularity.
Other countries just don't have the money the ACB or ECB have (India do, but they're just so disorganised it's redicolous). And in society, where the "rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer" that will also happen in cricket, and i do feel Australia and England will just run away from world cricket, with only possibly India (with organisation) and maybe (big big big big maybe) South Africa will go with them.
Move over Aussies, India is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This article is from the India Times cricket website. To be honest I think they are a bit biased. Especially after India's poor recent performances, anyways here it is.
Goodbye Australia!
Its official now! Australia is no more world beaters! The World Champions are on the decline- twin defeats first at the hands of minnows Bangladesh who beat them easily and now against England is a pointer to the fall of the Kangaroos. In all these years the biggest debate was who will be the No-2 team in the world- India, England, Pakistan or South Africa? After Australia's continued failure the debate has now shifted to who will annex the No-1 position from Australia.
Aus dominance is over
Despite what the commentators and pundits including India's Aussie coach Greg Chappell say about the Australian set up, Australia's dominance is a thing of the past. Chappell had recently remarked "It's a credit to Australian cricket as a whole, to the administration, to the support staff, captains and the players, all of whom who have been outstanding." But it's common knowledge teams go through cycles- West Indies dominated world cricket through out the 70's and 80's, it was Australia from the late 80's and now there suddenly exists a vaccum.
England doesn't have it!
England at the moment are the top contenders to topple Australia. But it's not all peaches and cream for the Englishmen. Michael Vaughan who was appointed captain after Hussian retired in 2003 has led England in just 26 Tests winning 65 percent of the matches- mainly against West Indies, New Zealand and South Africa. He is yet to cross swords with the sub-continental giants- India and Pakistan. When his team toured Sri Lanka in 2003-04 they were trounced in the third Test by the Lankan lions by an innings and 215 runs at Colombo losing the three Test series 1-0. (AFP Photo)
Sourav's back
Sourav's India has been touted as the second best team in the world for a long time now. Their performance in the last 18 months hasn't justified that tag though! But like Australia- India too has gone through a cycle of defeats after the Pak tour in 2004. But all that is going to change soon. Sourav has struck form in England scoring a blistering century against Kent in the county championships. Harbhajan has also come back to form and Team India is the youngest team around - with their best in front of them. India's bowlers are still a young brigade and are bound to peak in time for the World Cup in 2007. (Reuters Photo)
Chappell factor
India's new coach, an Aussie himself is at the right place at the right time. He understands the psyche of the Aussies like no other coach in world cricket right now barring Dav Whatmore, another Aussie who is heading Bangladesh right now. Chappell knows how to get under the skin of the English as well having played against them in the Ashes in the 70's. He is sure to bring his experience to the fore when India's new season begins in August in with the ODI tri-angular tournament in Sri Lanka. In fact Chappell should consider himself lucky as he has some of the best talent in world cricket to play around with! (AFP Photo)
South Africa is another contender to the throne. But they were beaten by India at home in the two Test series in December losing 1-0 and were humiliated in their home soil by England in the Test series in 2004. Their lone series victory was against West Indies recently but that's no benchmark for success. West Indies seems to be everybody's favourite punching bag nowadays! The Proteas under Graeme Smith still have a long way to go before they can seriously challenge the big teams. (Reuters Photo)
Pak's problems
Pakistan is another team who are the top contenders after beating India in the ODI series and drawing the Test series in April. But they failed to clinch the Test series against West Indies considered to be easy pickings in international cricket right now. Pakistan's internal politics hit the headlines during the West Indies series with Afridi getting into a tiff with vice-captain Younis Khan. Pakistan might have a talented outfit but they still lack the discipline and team spirit to go in for a long drawn out struggle. Inzy's boys are not quite up to the mark right now.
That leaves India
India is ranked third in the ICC Test ratings, four points behind England. Considering the fact that India will play Zimbabwe at Harare and Sri Lanka at home, India would be running the English brigade very close. In the ODI rankings too, India is placed just nine points below England. If India performs well in the triangular series in August they will be able to run the Poms close again. India has everything to look forward to in the new season. (Agency Photo). End of the article
Personally, I dont think the Aussies are down and out, they are still the top team int he world. Although its the confidence that has shifted. That is the key to other teams beating Australia.
The most scary part for the Aussies is the fact that they will now be dealing with opponents who are comming in to actually win the games because they would have the believe more so then ever within themselves to do so.
This really does open up things as the comming world cup could really go to anyones hands.
Referring to the article above I disagree with it on many counts, firstly its really team India that is having problems at the moment sorting things out. Their players are out of form and the team has struggled over the past season quiet consistently.
Secondly, teams like England and Pakistan do have it to really challenge Australia. The English team seems more balanced then before and the Pakistani's are on a high for the first time after a LONG time playing to thier potential with some consistency and thier problems within the board or team aren't really that much of a concern.
The game is basically more open now, and I do think this is a really interesting phase since other teams like India, England, Pakista and others from around the world will try that much harder to make thier move since the Aussies have droped thier guard.
I am really hoping for a open 2007 world cup!
This article is from the India Times cricket website. To be honest I think they are a bit biased. Especially after India's poor recent performances, anyways here it is.
Goodbye Australia!
Its official now! Australia is no more world beaters! The World Champions are on the decline- twin defeats first at the hands of minnows Bangladesh who beat them easily and now against England is a pointer to the fall of the Kangaroos. In all these years the biggest debate was who will be the No-2 team in the world- India, England, Pakistan or South Africa? After Australia's continued failure the debate has now shifted to who will annex the No-1 position from Australia.
Aus dominance is over
Despite what the commentators and pundits including India's Aussie coach Greg Chappell say about the Australian set up, Australia's dominance is a thing of the past. Chappell had recently remarked "It's a credit to Australian cricket as a whole, to the administration, to the support staff, captains and the players, all of whom who have been outstanding." But it's common knowledge teams go through cycles- West Indies dominated world cricket through out the 70's and 80's, it was Australia from the late 80's and now there suddenly exists a vaccum.
England doesn't have it!
England at the moment are the top contenders to topple Australia. But it's not all peaches and cream for the Englishmen. Michael Vaughan who was appointed captain after Hussian retired in 2003 has led England in just 26 Tests winning 65 percent of the matches- mainly against West Indies, New Zealand and South Africa. He is yet to cross swords with the sub-continental giants- India and Pakistan. When his team toured Sri Lanka in 2003-04 they were trounced in the third Test by the Lankan lions by an innings and 215 runs at Colombo losing the three Test series 1-0. (AFP Photo)
Sourav's back
Sourav's India has been touted as the second best team in the world for a long time now. Their performance in the last 18 months hasn't justified that tag though! But like Australia- India too has gone through a cycle of defeats after the Pak tour in 2004. But all that is going to change soon. Sourav has struck form in England scoring a blistering century against Kent in the county championships. Harbhajan has also come back to form and Team India is the youngest team around - with their best in front of them. India's bowlers are still a young brigade and are bound to peak in time for the World Cup in 2007. (Reuters Photo)
Chappell factor
India's new coach, an Aussie himself is at the right place at the right time. He understands the psyche of the Aussies like no other coach in world cricket right now barring Dav Whatmore, another Aussie who is heading Bangladesh right now. Chappell knows how to get under the skin of the English as well having played against them in the Ashes in the 70's. He is sure to bring his experience to the fore when India's new season begins in August in with the ODI tri-angular tournament in Sri Lanka. In fact Chappell should consider himself lucky as he has some of the best talent in world cricket to play around with! (AFP Photo)
South Africa is another contender to the throne. But they were beaten by India at home in the two Test series in December losing 1-0 and were humiliated in their home soil by England in the Test series in 2004. Their lone series victory was against West Indies recently but that's no benchmark for success. West Indies seems to be everybody's favourite punching bag nowadays! The Proteas under Graeme Smith still have a long way to go before they can seriously challenge the big teams. (Reuters Photo)
Pak's problems
Pakistan is another team who are the top contenders after beating India in the ODI series and drawing the Test series in April. But they failed to clinch the Test series against West Indies considered to be easy pickings in international cricket right now. Pakistan's internal politics hit the headlines during the West Indies series with Afridi getting into a tiff with vice-captain Younis Khan. Pakistan might have a talented outfit but they still lack the discipline and team spirit to go in for a long drawn out struggle. Inzy's boys are not quite up to the mark right now.
That leaves India
India is ranked third in the ICC Test ratings, four points behind England. Considering the fact that India will play Zimbabwe at Harare and Sri Lanka at home, India would be running the English brigade very close. In the ODI rankings too, India is placed just nine points below England. If India performs well in the triangular series in August they will be able to run the Poms close again. India has everything to look forward to in the new season. (Agency Photo). End of the article
Personally, I dont think the Aussies are down and out, they are still the top team int he world. Although its the confidence that has shifted. That is the key to other teams beating Australia.
The most scary part for the Aussies is the fact that they will now be dealing with opponents who are comming in to actually win the games because they would have the believe more so then ever within themselves to do so.
This really does open up things as the comming world cup could really go to anyones hands.
Referring to the article above I disagree with it on many counts, firstly its really team India that is having problems at the moment sorting things out. Their players are out of form and the team has struggled over the past season quiet consistently.
Secondly, teams like England and Pakistan do have it to really challenge Australia. The English team seems more balanced then before and the Pakistani's are on a high for the first time after a LONG time playing to thier potential with some consistency and thier problems within the board or team aren't really that much of a concern.
The game is basically more open now, and I do think this is a really interesting phase since other teams like India, England, Pakista and others from around the world will try that much harder to make thier move since the Aussies have droped thier guard.
I am really hoping for a open 2007 world cup!
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
Australia only just beat india IN India..... what more evidence do you need 
archie mac
International Coach
Author please?