*Official* Australia in decline thread

[FaaipDeOiad]

I think u guys seem to be forgetting the fact that most of the other teams will more of their players still going around after the 2007 WC, then Australia. If u look at Pakistan, India and England for example majority of their team will still be at their best after the WC.

Yeah, but Australia's replacement players are far more promising. Look at it this way - at the outside Australia will lose Langer, Hayden, Martyn, Gilchrist, McGrath and Warne (and I think a few of those will play on, this is a worst case scenario). No doubt Gilchrist, McGrath and Warne will be big losses, but given that Australia has plenty of solid batting depth that will be in its prime around that time, do you really think the rest will hurt Australia to any significant degree? No doubt they will be slightly weaker for a time, but I don't think it will be enough to bring them down out of top spot.

Even Sri Lanka are only going to lose Jayasuriya, Attapattu, Vaas and Murali after the next WC, but the players they have to replace them are better then current young guys in Australia. Maharoof, Malinga and Suraj are better then any of the young Australian bowlers like Tait, White or Cleary.

I don't think Murali will retire then, personally. Regardless, there's no way that Sri Lanka's replacement players match up with the talent on the Australian domestic scene at the moment. Who does Sri Lanka have who looks as solid with the bat as Hussey, Hodge, Watson etc? And you really think Malinga and Maharoof are better than Tait? Tait has the potential to be one of the quickest bowlers in the world, and has improved his accuracy massively in recent times. He has 58 wickets at 20.44 with an astonishing SR of just 35 this season in the pura cup, and that's with the whole South Australian team (which is very weak) based around him. He has definate flaws in his game, but to suggest that he's not one of the most promising young bowlers in the world would be massively unfair to him in my view.

 

[Scallywag]

I think u guys seem to be forgetting the fact that most of the other teams will more of their players still going around after the 2007 WC, then Australia. If u look at Pakistan, India and England for example majority of their team will still be at their best after the WC. Their no doubt that all team will lose players but many of the teams outside Australia will have their core team after the next WC. Even Sri Lanka are only going to lose Jayasuriya, Attapattu, Vaas and Murali after the next WC, but the players they have to replace them are better then current young guys in Australia. Maharoof, Malinga and Suraj are better then any of the young Australian bowlers like Tait, White or Cleary.

How did you come to the concusion that Maharoof, Malinga and Suraj are better than Tait.

 

[chaminda_00]

Yeah, but Australia's replacement players are far more promising.

Well living in Australia and seeing most of the Australian players 1st hand i don't think that the guys that are around Micheal Clarke's age are anything special, apart from maybe Watson.
-White will probably be a good ODI player but i don't know about Test.
-Tait got potential but isn't much better then some young guys coming through the other teams, who probably we regulars in their nation team by the time he gets a go.

but given that Australia has plenty of solid batting depth that will be in its prime around that time, do you really think the rest will hurt Australia to any significant degree? No doubt they will be slightly weaker for a time, but I don't think it will be enough to bring them down out of top spot.

I doubt guys like Hussey, Hodge, Love and others will be still in their prime by the time that this current batting line up retires. If u just look at those three they will be 33 (Hodge), 32 (Hussey) and 33 (Love) by 2007, not really in their prime.If ur talking about guys like Cosgrove, North, Jaques and others then they maybe in their prime but unlike other players from other countries of the same age they will have next to no International exprience. Most of the current 20 yo from other countires would proably be regulars in their national teams by the time they will be making their debuts, so even though they might be better now, by that time the others will be better.

I don't think Murali will retire then, personally. Regardless, there's no way that Sri Lanka's replacement players match up with the talent on the Australian domestic scene at the moment. Who does Sri Lanka have who looks as solid with the bat as Hussey, Hodge, Watson etc?

Well unless Hussey or Hodge get a run right now in the Australian team now they wont be in the picture by the time that Martyn, Hayden, Langer and others retire. They is no one at Watson level, but their are guys at North, Cosgrove, Ferguson, Jaques, Hopes and other level. Mubrak, Kandamby, Daniel, Vithana, Tharanga, Vandort and Paranavitana are all at their level.

Well Murali shoulder f**ked and he would proably retire from at least ODI by then and i can't see him playing Test Cricket after 2010.

And you really think Malinga and Maharoof are better than Tait? Tait has the potential to be one of the quickest bowlers in the world, and has improved his accuracy massively in recent times. He has 58 wickets at 20.44 with an astonishing SR of just 35 this season in the pura cup, and that's with the whole South Australian team (which is very weak) based around him. He has definate flaws in his game, but to suggest that he's not one of the most promising young bowlers in the world would be massively unfair to him in my view.

Tait is a good bowler but these two are better IMO, Malinga is faster and swings the ball more consitently, there acurracy is about the same, both have improved that aspect of their game allot over the last 12 months. Maharoof is allot more accurate and is gueniue swing bowler. the only aspect that Tait is better then him is pace, but Maharoof swing and accuracy makes him a better bowler.

How did you come to the concusion that Maharoof, Malinga and Suraj are better than Tait.

I was comparing Suraj more to the spin bowlers in Australia, not really to Tait. From the way Suraj bowled from Sri Lanka A in England his recent preformaces in the Provinical Tournment. He is far better bowler then White, Harutiz, Doherty, Cullen, Casson and others

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Tait is a good bowler but these two are better IMO, Malinga is faster and swings the ball more consitently, there acurracy is about the same, both have improved that aspect of their game allot over the last 12 months. Maharoof is allot more accurate and is gueniue swing bowler. the only aspect that Tait is better then him is pace, but Maharoof swing and accuracy makes him a better bowler.

Well, I haven't seen Malinga since he toured Australia so I can't comment on his improvement since then, but when he came here he certainly wasn't quicker than Tait and struggled massively for accuracy. A very talented young bowler by all means, but a first class econ rate of 4.11 says he has a lot of work to do in that area. I can't really comment on Maharoof as I haven't seen him bowl at all and his first class record only spans a handful of matches, but from the bowlers I have seen the only one I think is a more exciting prospect than Tait is Pathan.

I was comparing Suraj more to the spin bowlers in Australia, not really to Tait. From the way Suraj bowled from Sri Lanka A in England his recent preformaces in the Provinical Tournment. He is far better bowler then White, Harutiz, Doherty, Cullen, Casson and others

That Sri Lanka would produce a spinner better than that lot is not a surprise at all. I think Herath is better than all of them as well.

 

[chaminda_00]

Well, I haven't seen Malinga since he toured Australia so I can't comment on his improvement since then, but when he came here he certainly wasn't quicker than Tait and struggled massively for accuracy. A very talented young bowler by all means, but a first class econ rate of 4.11 says he has a lot of work to do in that area. I can't really comment on Maharoof as I haven't seen him bowl at all and his first class record only spans a handful of matches, but from the bowlers I have seen the only one I think is a more exciting prospect than Tait is Pathan.

You are kidding aren't u Tait is quicker then malinga, come on the guy bowled up to 150km/h consistently, whereas Tait would only bowl at 140km/h. Well in terms of his accuracy his E/R in the recent Provincial Tournment was 3.11, he is improving allot, as much as Tait, his ODD E/R is also better then Tait only slightly but better.

In the U23 Asia Cup before Pathan was selected for India, the only bowler that came close to Pathan was Maharoof. But as u said u haven't seen him bowl and if u did u would see that his is a better bowler then Tait and probably only second to Pathan, in terms of young quicks coming through.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Even Sri Lanka are only going to lose Jayasuriya, Attapattu, Vaas and Murali after the next WC

That's a good one. Who's going to take Murali and Vaas' place? Chandana? Malinga?

But getting back on topic, I think Australia are going to sink a lot slower than their Carribbean counterparts because Australia has set their foundations (i.e. grass roots and domestic competitions) so much more carefully. The only way they're going to be ousted is if they stop producing once-in-a-generation players.

 

[dinu23]

I don't think they can ever replace Mcgrath and warne. They have their batting line-up pretty much covered, but the bowling will be a problem.

 

[chaminda_00]

That's a good one. Who's going to take Murali and Vaas' place? Chandana? Malinga?

well Maharoof will replace Vaas, if he reaches his potenital then he will be a better bowler then Vaas. Suraj would replace Murali, i doubt their would be anyone who will be as good as Murali but if Suraj reaches his potential then he probably be one of the best spinners in the world.

The only way they're going to be ousted is if they stop producing once-in-a-generation players.

Im sure the Windies thought they will still produce once-in-a-generation players especially when Lara can on scene. Out of the next generation their really only one once-in-a-generation players Clarke, maybe two Watson. Tait is a good bowlers but i doubt he will get anywhere near McGarth, a once-in-a-generation player. The rest as i said before aren't much better then the guys coming through the other teams.

 

[marc71178]

Australia may not be as dominant as they are now but all teams will suffer from players retiring after 2007 and Australia looks to be better prepared for it.

I don't think it'll necessarily be all teams to be honest.

Only 2 possibles for England IMO are Thorpe (who will already have gone) and Butcher (who isn't a surefire pick anyway)

 

[marc71178]

The fact that all the players in the current Australian team except for perhaps Gilchrist and Warne are under pressure from other players in the domestic scene as soon as they fall out of form speaks volumes of Australias depth

I'd like to know who the pacemen are under pressure from...

 

[Scallywag]

I'd like to know who the pacemen are under pressure from...

Lee, Tait, Williams, Bichel and Bracken.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Lee, Tait, Williams, Bichel and Bracken.

In the same way Murali's under pressure from Herath, or Lara from Ganga?

 

[Scallywag]

In the same way Murali's under pressure from Herath, or Lara from Ganga?

Do you think Australian selectors would be game to promote a younger player if Gillespie or Kaspa had a bad run, A lot of players and posters have under estimated the ruthlessness of the Aus selectors. Perform of make way for someone who will. Even McGrath knows that if he takes it easy he could end up retiring before he wants to.

 

[chaminda_00]

Do you think Australian selectors would be game to promote a younger player if Gillespie or Kaspa had a bad run, A lot of players and posters have under estimated the ruthlessness of the Aus selectors. Perform of make way for someone who will. Even McGrath knows that if he takes it easy he could end up retiring before he wants to.

That might be true with batting but it isn't true when it comes to bowling, as the Indian showed last summer if u take out Mcgarth, Warne and a fully fit Gillespie then the Australian bowling attack isn't any better then any other bowling attack in the world. Guys like Williams and Braken are good bowlers but aren't any better then the bowlers from Sri Lanka, England, India, Pakistan and New Zealand. The only guys that are putting pressure on the Australia fast bowlers are Tait, Lee and Bichel. Even so it doesn't matter how bad Gillespie and McGarth bowl they never will be replaced by those three or any others, well any time soon at least.

 

[deeps]

gilly- ronchi
mcgrath-no1, bracken is probably the best prospect...tait is over-rated imo
warne- absolutely NOTHING in terms of quality spinners. Cam White and Hauritz are both garbage spinners, who are about as good as mark waugh was.. The young West Aussie spinner looks to be the best prospect, but bein west aus, he gets less coverage cant remember his name but he's the one that kept brad hogg out of a WA game earlier this year...seems a very very good bowler

there's an abundance of batsman i'm not gonna even bother naming them, besides punter, clarke etc. have alot of time to come

 

[chaminda_00]

gilly- ronchi

Well i don't think it is a certaintly that ronchi will replace gilly, there are many other good keepers around Australia who are as good as him. Just to name a few Haddin, Hartley, Manou, Croswhite and Dawson will all give Ronchi a run for his money, but it doesn't matter who replaces him none of them will be as good as him. He will leave a big hole in the Australian team.

 

[mavric41]

I can see the selectors bringing young players on tours for the experiance. I'd say Tait will go to England on the Ashes tour party to learn. If he can put another injury free season together next year, Mitchell Johnson will start getting the same treatment. Actually I think Tait and Johnson opening the bowling together is a pretty exciting prospect.

 

[Retox]

What does everyone see in Watson? From what I have seen from him he seems over-rated. Everyone is talking him up.If he is the the future for Australia

 

[chaminda_00]

I can see the selectors bringing young players on tours for the experiance. I'd say Tait will go to England on the Ashes tour party to learn. If he can put another injury free season together next year, Mitchell Johnson will start getting the same treatment. Actually I think Tait and Johnson opening the bowling together is a pretty exciting prospect.

Especially when they play Sri Lanka, i can't wait for that bowling attack and let me guess u have Watson 1st Change, haurtiz and White the two spinners. Their is the end to Australia's world domination, please bring on this side.

 

[Mr Casson]

What does everyone see in Watson? From what I have seen from him he seems over-rated. Everyone is talking him up.If he is the the future for Australia

Technically a very good batsman. And when he gets some rhythm as a bowler and realises that it's not all about trying his ass off, he'll be very good at that too. Also, have you noticed his arm? He has a bullet throw and is deadly accurate from the outfield. Right on top of the bails every time.