**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

[tooextracool]

The biggest problem for England is the fact that Flintoff can't bowl at present, but the makeup of the side in the later games having ditched the bits-and-pieces allrounders is fine.

no the biggest problem with the side is that we have 3 batsman and 3 bowlers...and flintoff is included in both

 

[tooextracool]

I'm not Neil, but I actually looked at that team and think that if Flintoff could bowl then that 11 isn't too bad - 5 bowlers who are all more or less reliable.

giles and anderson arent "reliable"

 

[tooextracool]

Vaughan has failed for too long now, he isnt anything special as a captain..
Give Butcher a chance at least.. Worse players have been given oppertunity for England at ODI level..

butcher is a liability in the field and isnt an innovative batsman....he really only has 3 shots, a cover drive, a cut and a flick

 

[Arjun]

2) michael vaughan- surely the time has come for the axe to fall? hes failed continuosly for 1.5 years and is a liability to the side.....he cannot be carried around just for his captaincy. there are obvious faults in both his footwork and temperament, he must get these sorted out if he wants to maintain his test place as well. you cannot play expansive cover drives of wide balls without moving your feet whatsover .

But whom would you have in place of him? The same man got a lot of runs against a bowling attack that crushed the team for which he played. He also got a 50 against the Pakistani all-star attack. He was going well against McGrath and Lee in PE, till Bichel came on. If not him, whom would you pick?

 

[Tim]

That 11 may look good on paper, but the fact is..it hasn't been performing for awhile now. Vaughan & Trescothick are going to fire once in awhile & presumably when they do..England will win that match.
IMO Flintoff gives that side its legs. And despite the fact that Flintoff has scored 2 consecutive centuries..they still lost by a considerable margin.

 

[tooextracool]

Don't drop Vaughan - just drop him down the order to #4 or even #5. He's too good of a batsman to discard - i'd rather have him to come in with 15 overs to play instead of someone like Key/Collingwood.

England need to give him a change in role or scenery - he's too good of a batsman to throw away.

i'll remind you that hes spent half his ODI career batting at 4.....with not too much success either

 

[tooextracool]

But whom would you have in place of him? The same man got a lot of runs against a bowling attack that crushed the team for which he played.

dont confuse tests with ODIS.......

He also got a 50 against the Pakistani all-star attack.

wow all that in 1.5 years!simply brilliant

He was going well against McGrath and Lee in PE, till Bichel came on.

yes he did look good on his way to 2

If not him, whom would you pick?

there are several other players in england who can come in and average over 24 in ODI cricket i can assure you that.

 

[Tim]

Would England pick Craig Spearman? I mean if he batted the way he usually does in County or NZ domestic cricket in international matches, he'd be right up there in terms of entertainment value alongside Sehwag, Gilchrist etc.

 

[wpdavid]

there are several other players in england who can come in and average over 24 in ODI cricket i can assure you that.

No-one's mentioned Mark Wagh, who has been a far more consistent performer than Ian Bell for Warwickshire. He also bats at the top of the order, which is where we're struggling. Apart from one game when he made over 300 without being dismissed, Bell's form has once again been poor and I'm struggling to see how he could score runs at international level if he can't regularly do it against county attacks.

 

[marc71178]

then I don't see the problem of Flintoff dropping to #6.

With the proviso that he can be promoted I hope!

 

[marc71178]

So, prey, how can someone be good enough for international cricket and not good enough for domestic?

Where did I say that?

Oh that's right, I said nothing of the sort.

 

[marc71178]

giles and anderson arent "reliable"

More reliable than the alternatives - Anderson is the wicket-taker of the side while the others keep it tighter.

 

[Langeveldt]

Where did I say that?

Oh that's right, I said nothing of the sort.

just dropped your rattle mate....

 

[roseboy64]

Do you not follow the regional cricket - Carib Cup etc.?

Yeah but not religiously.Although if i see the lineup of one of those teams,maybe only the newcomers would be foreign to me.Sammy's been playing for a few years now i suspect but i've never heard of him.I heard of Bravo and Devon Smith but not Dwayne Smith and Edwards,they're exceptions though.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yeah but not religiously.Although if i see the lineup of one of those teams,maybe only the newcomers would be foreign to me.Sammy's been playing for a few years now i suspect but i've never heard of him.I heard of Bravo and Devon Smith but not Dwayne Smith and Edwards,they're exceptions though.

Sammy has only played 2 seasons of regional domestic cricket.

Bravo and DeSmith are not exactly little known names in the region. It's not really any surprise that you've heard of them as they've been in contention for West Indies colours for some time now. DeSmith for longer than Bravo. I'd heard of Dwayne Smith before he was called up, but I'll admit that Edwards was totally out of my knowledge.

 

[marc71178]

just dropped your rattle mate....

??? What do you mean?

 

[Revelation]

there was a report on local news (T&T) that the game tomorrow might be washed out due to a depression??? Anyone can shed some light on that?

 

[Richard]

No-one's mentioned Mark Wagh, who has been a far more consistent performer than Ian Bell for Warwickshire. He also bats at the top of the order, which is where we're struggling. Apart from one game when he made over 300 without being dismissed, Bell's form has once again been poor and I'm struggling to see how he could score runs at international level if he can't regularly do it against county attacks.

In First-Class-cricket Wagh's been more consistent than Bell, but Wagh's one-day record is very poor. Though it's absolutely inevitable that the muddling of the game-forms will continue in selection and media and TV pundits will continue to try to pretend if you succeed in one you must succeed in the other, we've got to at least hope for as few cases as possible.
Bell would have been a perfect pick for this season's ODIs - except for the fact that his one-day form this season has been woefully below it's normal standards.

 

[Richard]

Where did I say that?

Oh that's right, I said nothing of the sort.

The words didn't pass your keyboard, they were implied.
You suggested that the fact that Strauss has not been good enough to dominate National League and C&G cricket is irrelevant, that he could still be good enough for ODI-cricket, simply because his temperament is good.

 

[roseboy64]

Sammy has only played 2 seasons of regional domestic cricket.

Bravo and DeSmith are not exactly little known names in the region. It's not really any surprise that you've heard of them as they've been in contention for West Indies colours for some time now. DeSmith for longer than Bravo. I'd heard of Dwayne Smith before he was called up, but I'll admit that Edwards was totally out of my knowledge.

Ok then i'll just pay more attention next season for which the standards are supposed to improve.