**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

[SpaceMonkey]

there was a report on local news (T&T) that the game tomorrow might be washed out due to a depression??? Anyone can shed some light on that?

Well today it rained basically all day and its probably gonna be the same for at least most of tomorrow morning, so id be totally shocked if they even bowled a ball.

 

[Adamc]

The words didn't pass your keyboard, they were implied.
You suggested that the fact that Strauss has not been good enough to dominate National League and C&G cricket is irrelevant, that he could still be good enough for ODI-cricket, simply because his temperament is good.

He did not say that Strauss wasn't good enough for domestic cricket. All he said was that Strauss should be in the international side because his temperament is more important than his form in domestic cricket.
Read. Think. Post. Not the other way round!

 

[Craig]

Would England pick Craig Spearman? I mean if he batted the way he usually does in County or NZ domestic cricket in international matches, he'd be right up there in terms of entertainment value alongside Sehwag, Gilchrist etc.

Doubt it.

Kevin Pietersen (when he becomes available) and Ian Bell would definatly be ahead of him.

 

[marc71178]

Bell would have been a perfect pick for this season's ODIs - except for the fact that his one-day form this season has been woefully below it's normal standards.

His normal standards aren't great either - but county records don't mean a lot IMO.

 

[marc71178]

The words didn't pass your keyboard, they were implied.
You suggested that the fact that Strauss has not been good enough to dominate National League and C&G cricket is irrelevant, that he could still be good enough for ODI-cricket, simply because his temperament is good.

No they were not implied - I said that he scores the runs because he has the ability and the temprement and that his county record is irrelevant.

 

[Tim]

Well it appears as though there's no rain but the ground is going to take awhile to clean up.

I think whoever wins the toss & bowls will most likely win today..it'll be another one of these 25 over smash-athons.

 

[wpdavid]

His (Bell's) normal standards aren't great either - but county records don't mean a lot IMO.

I can see how someone who does well in the CC isn't necessarily good enough for international cricket - we could all name several examples of that. But the idea that someone who regularly fails against county attacks will somehow do better against international bowlers has alaways struck me as strange. I know that's not exactly what you were saying Marc, but there seems to be a bit of a bandwagon behind Bell which is vastly disproportionate to what he's actually achieved.

 

[wpdavid]

In First-Class-cricket Wagh's been more consistent than Bell, but Wagh's one-day record is very poor. Though it's absolutely inevitable that the muddling of the game-forms will continue in selection and media and TV pundits will continue to try to pretend if you succeed in one you must succeed in the other, we've got to at least hope for as few cases as possible.
Bell would have been a perfect pick for this season's ODIs - except for the fact that his one-day form this season has been woefully below it's normal standards.

I know there are some exceptions, but most international batsmen who are good enough at all are good enough for both forms of the game. Unfortunately Rob Key is one obvious exception who's been put in a situation where he was always going to struggle. But, as a rule, I'm not keen on pigeon holing players as either oneday or 4/5 day specialist. AFAICS sides who win WC's are mostly made up of test players plus an allrounder or 2 and maybe without their slowest batsman. I read a lot of stuff about how England should build a side of oneday specialists, and I think it's mistaken.

 

[wpdavid]

Doubt it.

Kevin Pietersen (when he becomes available) and Ian Bell would definatly be ahead of him.

Pietersen is looking an absolute shoe-in now, isn't he. Is he available for the ICC tourny in September, or not until the SA tour?

 

[marc71178]

I can see how someone who does well in the CC isn't necessarily good enough for international cricket - we could all name several examples of that. But the idea that someone who regularly fails against county attacks will somehow do better against international bowlers has alaways struck me as strange.

Look at the records of the recent successes - nothing special in CC, but they've shown they have that little something extra.

It's not how many, it's how.

 

[wpdavid]

Look at the records of the recent successes - nothing special in CC, but they've shown they have that little something extra.

It's not how many, it's how.

It's also a case of looking carefully at their contexts. Vaughan always gets put forward as one of those, but county wickets were less batsman friendly when he was making his way than they are now, plus he played most of his home games at Headingley, which was very bowler-friendly in the mid-1990's. Bell is facing a less challenging situation, but is generally doing very little.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Pietersen is looking an absolute shoe-in now, isn't he. Is he available for the ICC tourny in September, or not until the SA tour?

Well they said he would be avaliable for the ICC in September, but apparently today it came out that he doesnt officially qualify till OCT, so the earliest he can play is for the One dayers in Zimbabwe which are also in OCT.

 

[wpdavid]

Well they said he would be avaliable for the ICC in September, but apparently today it came out that he doesnt officially qualify till OCT, so the earliest he can play is for the One dayers in Zimbabwe which are also in OCT.

Thanks. I'd forgotten about Zim, which was probably wishful thinking on my part.

 

[Adamc]

David Gower just raised an interesting point: if this match gets reduced to 20 overs a side, wouldn't this be the first international Twenty20 match instead of the England v Australia match next year?

 

[wpdavid]

Look at the records of the recent successes - nothing special in CC, but they've shown they have that little something extra.

It's not how many, it's how.

Looking at Strauss' figures over the past 3 years, they're actually pretty decent and also improving from year to year. That being said, I am pleasantly surprised by how well he's taken to international cricket, albeit against some pretty limited attacks. Thorpe, of course, has always done well at county level, but perhaps you didn't mean him.

I suppose Tresco would be your main example, and not without justification. If I was going to be picky, I'd argue that his international success has mainly come in easy circumstances and that he's generally failed when the goings got tough. Also, if you look at his FC averages, they were as good as anyone's in the year and a bit before he was selected - the years of major underachievement were before then. But you're right that he was picked despite not because of his county form - you probably know the story about Fletcher remembering one spectacular innings for Somerset against Glamorgan.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

David Gower just raised an interesting point: if this match gets reduced to 20 overs a side, wouldn't this be the first international Twenty20 match instead of the England v Australia match next year?

No cos im sure theres been lots of reduced 20 over games in the past.

 

[Adamc]

No cos im sure theres been lots of reduced 20 over games in the past.

No there hasn't. Before this series, the minimum overs required for a result was 25 per side.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

No there hasn't. Before this series, the minimum overs required for a result was 25 per side.

ahh

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

David Gower just raised an interesting point: if this match gets reduced to 20 overs a side, wouldn't this be the first international Twenty20 match instead of the England v Australia match next year?

It'd be extremely ambitious to think we'll get a full game today, if any significant play at all.

 

[roseboy64]

One of the umpires said that it'll be 20 overs a side.