• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

Neil Pickup

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I'm not desperately bothered about it - ODI cricket has never really concerned me too much except World Cups - however Solanki won't fix anything 8-).

The biggest problem for England is the fact that Flintoff can't bowl at present, but the makeup of the side in the later games having ditched the bits-and-pieces allrounders is fine.
 

cbuts

International Debutant
crashed out, that would imply they deserved to be in there, the fact is they are terriable at one day cricket
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Adamc said:
Gayle was superb, paced himself very well, even if he did not look entirely at ease the whole time. 100 in his 100th match, and his 3 wickets in his last over may well have made the difference for WI.

Actually, I'll go for a different bowling hero - Tino Best to bowl 2 overs for 9 in the midst of that carnage.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
chris.hinton said:
Because England have crashed out, do you think that the selectors have got the formula right for one day cricket?

I'm not Neil, but I actually looked at that team and think that if Flintoff could bowl then that 11 isn't too bad - 5 bowlers who are all more or less reliable.

Mind you, add Bell in for Key, and rearrange the order slightly (Strauss 3, Flintoff 4, Bell 5, Collingwood 6) or Strauss opens, and numbers 3 to 7 are flexible.

Then you have 5 front line bowlers plus 4 useful 2 or 3 over stand-ins, and a solid batting line-up.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
TDCC Young Guns said:
crashed out, that would imply they deserved to be in there, the fact is they are terriable at one day cricket
Which is why they've either won or shared 4 of the 5 series prior to this one...
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
My XI - For whatever faces England next...

1. ME Trescothick
2. A Strauss *
3. M Butcher
4. I Bell
5. A Flintoff
6. R Key
7. G Jones +
8. A Giles
9. D Gough
10. J Anderson
11. S Harmison

TBH..
Vaughan has failed for too long now, he isnt anything special as a captain..
Give Butcher a chance at least.. Worse players have been given oppertunity for England at ODI level..
 
Last edited:

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
But I think that also shows just how much of a world class player Flintoff is.
He's a good ODI bowler, he's now batting aggressively & successfully & he lifts the other players.

But currently if England play any more ODI's without him..I can't see them winning too many.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
I dread to think!

His batting has come on to a great extent, although I expect certain people to moan about how he got out in the 50th over today 8-)
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
lol, I've been reading on the bbc.co.uk cricket forums that several English fans want Craig Spearman to play for England.

He's a great FC player but yet another player who can't make the step up to international cricket. And besides England should be looking at their own players rather than another overseas option. (Even though Spearman lives in England now)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Well, here's an assessment of the English fair in the NatWest Series:
James Anderson - as has been more common in recent times, the spells in which wickets have been forthcoming have been sandwiched in between those in which they have not. Still unquestionably certain of a place in the ODI squad to tour South Africa barring injury (and of course the Champions Trophy and Challenge).
Ian Blackwell - well, a continuation of the demonstration of what a woefully substandard batsman this fellow is. What a shame selectors based more on the nagging of a commentator and a couple of innings that happened to be televised than the long-term big picture. May well be dropped again for the South Africa ODIs and end-of-season tournaments.
Rikki Clarke - yet another example of the folly of selecting someone for ODIs with a domestic-one-day record that barely warrants a place in a domestic side. Had the Bangladesh ODIs not counted as ODIs (which surely no-one disputes they should not...) his ODI bowling record in terms of average and economy-rate would now be worse than his domestic record. I can't see him playing ODIs for a while yet, hopefully not until he starts looking like a decent domestic OD player.
Paul Collingwood - yet another substandard tournament. It remains true that he's had 3, short, periods of success in his ODI career - one in Zimbabwe (wow, that was tough), one covering the tail-end of the VB Series to the Pakistan WC2003 game, and one in Bangladesh (wow, that was even harder than Zimbabwe). And yet that'd probably be denounced as "removing things because they don't suit you", despite the fact it's simply removing things that don't fit an overall trend. Just about certian to be included for the South Africa ODIs.
Darren Gough - not many wickets (a few dropped catches, mostly off deliveries that no bowler has a right to compain about dropped catches off), but still perfectly acceptible economy. His inclusion for the South Africa ODIs is more likely than not, but by no means certain.
Ashley Giles - at last bowled for the first time in a proper ODI since last summer (where his last 12 overs cost 32 with 2 wickets), was relatively uninspiring but still not especially expensive. All but certain of a winter ODI place.
Andrew Flintoff - batted, continued form of recent Tests and ODIs that starts to beggar belief. Has there ever been a patch of runs being scored for as long and at such a pace? Probably, but not very often. As certain as anyone has ever been of a winter place barring injury.
Stephen Harmison - for two or three games actually bowled well in a one-day game, unusually. All but certain for winter ODIs.
Geirant Jones - limited opportunity, limited success. May conceivably regret the totally pointless, suicidal second run attempted in final game, especially if Read piles on the runs in the Totesport National for the rest of the season and he has an average West Indies Test-series (yes, it will influence the ODIs, even though it shouldn't). Couldn't really complain too much were Read to be handed his place back for the winter, but still more likely than not to play.
Robert Key - what a fantastic idea, pick someone for ODIs when he's having a fantastic domestic season... in the First-Class-game! And a very average Totesport season. Hopefully he'll not be picked for ODIs again until he's shown more success in the Totesport, and if he's picked again hopefully this time he'll bat in his proper position.
Sajid Mahmood - hammered in his only game. Picked for all the wrong reasons, but may quite conceivably get another chance.
Anthony McGrath - long-awaited return unsuccessful with the bat, succesful with the ball. More immidiate chances are not by any streatch of the imagination out of the question.
Andrew Strauss - puzzlingly good one-day-international form despite average domesic one-day record. No doubting whatsoever his place for the winter ODIs.
Marcus Trescothick - an extreme rarity - a poor Trescothick one-day series. Still, surely it was inevitable sometime - no-one can possibly score so fast as Trescothick does in ODIs and so heavily so consistently. Still unquestionably top ODI batsman.
Michael Vaughan - the message rammed home with as-of-yet unattained sustainance: "Michael Vaughan is not a one-day player". Regardless of the fact that commentators keep reiterating it's seeming inexplicability, it is fact nonetheless. How much longer can someone with such a poor record keep being picked on the strength of assumptions based on the other form of the game? My guess - at least 3 more series like this yet. And who's queing-up to take the captaincy, for that matter? Goughie, Tresco. Conceivably - Mr. Flintoff? If he keeps performing and Vaughan failing, don't rule-out the possibility of the same situation as befaced Hussain-Vaughan. Remember - you heard it here first.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Giving Flintoff the captaincy when he seems to be the only meat in the sandwich could be disastrous...but it could also work well.
 

SpaceMonkey

International Debutant
Richard said:
Well, here's an assessment of the English fair in the NatWest Series: .. rest too long to quote fully :)
For once i totally agree with one of your long posts :)
The team at the end of the series was much better than the start. Drop Vaughan and Key from the starting XI and i think we'll have the makings of a good team. But who do you replace them with? Bell could come in but again he is a Test Player not a One day player like Key i feel. Jefferson of Essex seems to do well with the bat opening, but i cant say ive seen him live much only what i read on the internet and the odd live essex game on sky.
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Andre Adams called up for NZ

Thoughts? He obviously has talent and has played well against the West Indies before, He's been out of favour ever since that game against the Aussies in the world cup (still trying to forget everything about that game except Shand Bond).
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
This could be make or break for Andre. I've said all along that he has the ability to last at international level..he just suffered a serious lapse of form at the W.C & took awhile to get over it.

He's got pace & his hard-hitting batting is a bonus..I hope he does well.
 

Adamc

Cricketer Of The Year
marc71178 said:
Actually, I'll go for a different bowling hero - Tino Best to bowl 2 overs for 9 in the midst of that carnage.
Yes, Tino was by far the best bowler in this match. I was just making a case for Gayle's allround performance.
 

Top