**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

[Kent]

Tell me about it! 8 years, 147 games, averaging 27 with a SR of 70.

Oh wait, that's Macca's ODI record....

 

[Tim]

Sorry Andre but im not too familiar with that phrase?

 

[Kent]

I've been a little bit annoyed with Cairns..it seems every time I see comments from him in the paper he's talking NZ up & how they're going to do this & that.

You're right - Cairns is becoming a frustrating character in many respects.

He's almost become the "Mr Miyagi" of the Black Caps....sitting back, talking a good game, trying to inspire confidence while being a very reluctant performer himself!

If I'm forced to stay with Karate Kid analogies, he's actually a bit more like the Cobra Kai's sensei when I think about it. We make a habit of talking ourselves up, looking great at times and somehow contriving a way to lose...

 

[tooextracool]

I have only one solution ..... That is to bring back "the venerable" Thorp at least for another year ...... the rookies can learn their craft by batting around him and his prescence will no doubt help thier cofidence and grooming.

i would rather not risk my best batsman just to makes sure that he plays a couple of pointless ODI series.....if england go on to lose every ODI this year i will still not change my mind because for the next ashes series i want thorpe to play not get injured!!

 

[tooextracool]

Some interesting comments coming from Chris Cairns. He says they'll try to exploit Harmison's unproven ODI record, and that England's loss to the Windies just shows how much Vaughan and Trescothick are the keys to England's batting.

woah hold on a second.....with clarke,blackwell and mcgrath bowling 20 overs between them chris cairns wants to exploit harmison's unproven record??? im just glad he wasnt chosen to captain the side in the 90s ahead of fleming.....

 

[Revelation]

perhaps someone can answer this for me but why hasn't butcher as yet played an ODI?

 

[gio]

I've got tickets for todays game at Chester-Le-Street, but no transport and no accomadation. You have no idea how hard it is to get from Edinburgh to Chester-Le-street. If we had a car, life would be so much easier. Unfortunately, no one in my family drives.

Needless to say, I'm gutted. I wish I'd got tickets for Headingley instead. Never-le-mind. I'll just sit and watch England's bits 'an pieces players get thumped again. Any England team news? I hope Mahmood and Key play for Blackwell and Clarke/McGrath.

 

[Mingster]

Tell me about it! 8 years, 147 games, averaging 27 with a SR of 70.

Oh wait, that's Macca's ODI record....

Average of 22 for Jones. Not much better aye.

 

[Revelation]

i think it's unfair to say that england would be thumped. They have a good team and one bad day doesn't make a summer.

 

[gio]

i think it's unfair to say that england would be thumped. They have a good team and one bad day doesn't make a summer.

But the problem is the management continue to select bits 'an pieces players. Players who can bat a bit and bowl a bit. When it fails, it fails misserably. And unfortunately, I can't remember one occassion in the past 12 months where England's bits and pieces players have bailed England out. The vast majority of games have been won by the top order (tres, Vaughan, Strauss), Flintoff or the bowlers (mainly Anderson). England need more specialists in there. I suggest Key for Blackwell and Mahmood for either McGrath or Clarke.

McGrath has more experience, whilst Clarke has more potential. Clarke hasn't really been given much of a chance, coming in late in the order. On the few occasions he has got in (I remember a 36 or so against SA) he's done alright.

 

[tooextracool]

i think it's unfair to say that england would be thumped. They have a good team and one bad day doesn't make a summer.

err no we dont.....i think the last ODI just showed how much we rely on flintoff and tresco....the others are unproven or rubbish.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

An England XI which looks like this (when everyone is fit)...

ME Trescothick (C)
AJ Strauss
GO Jones (wk)/IR Bell
GP Thorpe
PD Collingwood
A Flintoff
IR Bell/GO Jones (wk)
ID Blackwell/A Giles
D Gough
JM Anderson
SJ Harmison

... is pretty challenging IMO. The flexibility provided by Geraint Jones' batting is extremely useful and Thorpe would add experience to the ranks if he were in contention. IMO Blackwell is a more potent ODI batsman than Giles and at least as efficient a bowler (in ODIs mind you), therefore he'd get my spinner pick.

 

[Arjun]

What about him?

A short while later, I heard that he's been released. Couldn't they release Clark and Anthony instead?

 

[Arjun]

Another good idea would be to include Chris Read- at least he'd make use of one position, given that having Clarke, Anthony and Blackwell are of little or no use at present. Then, Jones can play as a frontline batsman, alongside Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan, Collingwood and Powell. Collingwood may have to contribute a lot more with the ball if this is the top 6 for the coming match.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Powell has been released from the squad.

 

[marc71178]

perhaps someone can answer this for me but why hasn't butcher as yet played an ODI?

He's not that good in List A games

 

[marc71178]

Average of 22 for Jones. Not much better aye.

But a very good start to his International Career...

 

[garage flower]

Encouraged by the Windies' performance on Sunday, particularly the bowling, which looked very raw and unthreatening on paper.

It's a rarity these days to see the bowling attack both identify the right line and length to bowl and then be able to implement it consistently.

Still not sure about the inclusion of both Dwayne Smith and Powell, with neither suggesting that they have the maturity/common sense to adapt their play to the situation. I would rather see Bravo moving up the order as he seems to have a better cricketing brain than the other two and at least as much talent.

I think that by the end of this tri-series, either Smith or Powell may have been jettisoned in favour of a more reliable, if less explosive, batsman like Devon Smith. In the longer term, Marlon Samuels has every chance of reclaiming his place in the side.

The balance of the England side has been critically undermined by the loss of Flintoff, but Harmison and Gough were a real handful and should keep them competitive.

Missed a lot of Saturday's minimal action, so it's hard to assess New Zealand. Cairns bowled very cannily, but nobody else had much chance to catch the eye given the brevity of proceedings.

 

[Kent]

Average of 22 for Jones. Not much better aye.

He's looked a much better player than that average suggests. He's probably been batting down the order, although he'd like his SR to be higher than 75 I'd imagine.

Despite the stats, I still give more importance to how confident a player is looking at international level. Hamish Marshall wouldn't get near the Black Caps otherwise.

 

[Loony BoB]

NZ batting right down to #11 today... although we're yet to see Franklin perform with the bat at international level to any extreme.

England team:
*MP Vaughan, ME Trescothick, +GO Jones, AJ Strauss,
PD Collingwood, A McGrath, ID Blackwell, AF Giles, D Gough,
SJ Harmison, JM Anderson.

New Zealand team:
*SP Fleming, NJ Astle, HJH Marshall, SB Styris, CD McMillan,
JDP Oram, CL Cairns, +GJ Hopkins, DL Vettori, JEC Franklin,
CZ Harris.