**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

[Tim]

No..I think they should go with the best option. This is not the time to be getting arrogant & messing with the lineup.

 

[Mingster]

Well, with a 5-Test series against Australia later in the year, we really need to develop genuine class middle-order batsmen in both forms of the game.

TEST (4, 5, 6) - Styris, Astle, McMillan/Sinclair/Fulton
ODI (4, 5, 6) - Styris, Cairns, McMillan/Fulton/Taylor/Sinclair

McMillan's future does look grim, but will the NZ selectors chuck a newbie (Fulton) in the team, without him playing much cricket recently? Another option is of course Sinclair, but we all know the similarities between him and McMillan.

When does the State cricket start this year?

 

[Tim]

Well I believe Fulton has been playing club cricket in England..so he's at least playing cricket.

 

[GermanShepherd]

Kiwis look to be in great ODi form.

I think they have a good chance of winning the ICC Champions trophy.

 

[Tim]

Small matter of beating Australia in pool play..lol.

Might be interesting though if Bond returns...

 

[Macka]

Well, with a 5-Test series against Australia later in the year, we really need to develop genuine class middle-order batsmen in both forms of the game.

TEST (4, 5, 6) - Styris, Astle, McMillan/Sinclair/Fulton
ODI (4, 5, 6) - Styris, Cairns, McMillan/Fulton/Taylor/Sinclair

McMillan's future does look grim, but will the NZ selectors chuck a newbie (Fulton) in the team, without him playing much cricket recently? Another option is of course Sinclair, but we all know the similarities between him and McMillan.

When does the State cricket start this year?

I was just wondering since NZ don't have to win their next game if they will look to set a score this time, they can obviously chase well. Maybe NZ will look to keep their momentum and do what they must for the win though.

Is it a 5 test series Mingster? I agree that we need to get some more batsman, although I'm more interested in top order players. I think to take a lead from the Aussies, who really play 6 top order batsmen, and Gilchrist. I guess their thinking is that top order batsmen can play in the middle order no worries, whereas middle order batsmen can't always make the step up.

New Zealand's big problem is now at #3, where we saw Fleming, Astle, Styris, and McCullum bat through the test series. It looks like Fleming is going to keep opening since Michael Papps isn't quite there yet. My worry is with Astle and MacMillan together in the batting order, they are both bad starters, and we saw them get dismissed one after the other in the test series. Neither has a good enough technique at the start of their innings to bat up the order. So I'm not too sure who should bat there, Styris has two centuries batting at #3, although both were made after a solid opening partnership. He also made that 170 against SA coming in at 12/2, so maybe there is a case for him, but I think he is playing well at #4. I think Sinclair is probably our best option, although questions have often been asked of his technique and he has a poor record against Australia. Although I definitely think he has made big steps forward in the last year.

The ODI's are a bit different, middle order bats are of more importance than in tests. Our top 4 are pretty settled at the moment, so its probably a case of Sinclair at #5, or Ross Taylor. We saw Flintoff score a good century at #5 yesterday, and Taylor loves to hit big sixes too.

 

[Tim]

Did anyone see Steve Harmisons dropped catch..that would have to be the worst blunder I've ever seen. Seriously, those ones that go up high at least give you some time to come under them.

Harmison isn't the most athletic player i've ever seen but he tries hard & you have to give him credit for that.

 

[Tim]

As far as im aware we're playing 2 tests in Australia & then 3 back here in NZ next March.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Did anyone see Steve Harmisons dropped catch..that would have to be the worst blunder I've ever seen. Seriously, those ones that go up high at least give you some time to come under them.

Harmison isn't the most athletic player i've ever seen but he tries hard & you have to give him credit for that.

He actually over ran the ball. Still no excuse though.

 

[MoxPearl]

nz vs aus games are always great... cant wait

Who remembers the last VB series ?

outta the 4 games nz and aus played.. nz won 3

 

[chris.hinton]

Think about it England Need a Number 3 batsman and a Number 8 who bowler who can bat

For Number 3 i feel that Ian Bell or Vikram Solanki

For Number 8 Graham Swann , Robin Martin Jenkins, That Hampshire bloke

 

[Neil Pickup]

When Flintoff returns to bowling fitness then we can afford to pick a specialist bowler at eight.

Please drop the whole Solanki thing.

 

[Kent]

Can someone assure me Sajid Mahmood wasn't the biggest hyped-up con job a commentary team has ever pulled? To me it even topped some of the build-ups I've heard from Channel 9 for Ian "the freak" Harvey.

Talk about trying to pass off canned beans as a rare delicacy!

 

[MoxPearl]

hope we drop macca.. hes simply not in form and needs to play a year or so of domestic cricket.

 

[Kent]

Hamish Marshall is really impressing me. People will probably say he's too weak against quality short-pitched bowling for test selection, yet in that case we'd be putting a line through Papps, Astle, and even Richardson. Fleming has also had a bit of trouble with ambitious pull shots of late.

Tell Marshall to keep the ramp shot in his bag until he's past 30 and I think he can be an ideal test player. The f/c runs issue simply has to be overlooked.

 

[meatspx]

Can someone assure me Sajid Mahmood wasn't the biggest hyped-up con job a commentary team has ever pulled? To me it even topped some of the build-ups I've heard from Channel 9 for Ian "the freak" Harvey.

Talk about trying to pass off canned beans as a rare delicacy!

Yeah - he was pretty awful. I thought he was picked because was fast - but both Harmison and Anderson are faster than him.

What ever happaned to Alan Mullally? He had an economy rate of 3.8 in ODIs, really good bowler and provides variation.

 

[Kent]

No..I think they should go with the best option. This is not the time to be getting arrogant & messing with the lineup.

Although, unless Cairns really was in pain or at risk, we were already guilty of that before we'd actually qualified.

People may already know how I feel about ODI games with no meaningful weight on them. Tinker with things, choose the harder option at the toss, draft in Ross Taylor, etc...

Seriously though, I wouldn't rule out another appearance of the cunning fox in Fleming this Thursday. Bracewell won't exactly be an angel for England's cause either.

 

[garage flower]

Everyone, don't forget there's a 3rd team involved in this series! Does anybody have any thoughts on the West Indies' performances?

As usual, there appear to be tensions in the camp at the moment with Lara launching a thinly-veiled attack on Chanderpaul in today's Barbados Nation News (www.nationnews.com).

Essentially, he's suggesting that the batting order was changed on Saturday to accommodate the fact that Shiv isn't happy opening. I should've copied the exact quote, but Lara expressed surprise about "a test batsman" being unhappy to have the full 50 overs to bat in a One Day game. It also transpires that Dwayne Smith is "uncomfortable" batting at 3.

Regardless of individual preferences, it was clear from Saturday's debacle that an experienced player is needed at 5 to steer the innings home. I'd like to see Sarwan given the job, with Devon Smith in the side for Powell and opening the batting, followed by Lara and Shiv. Dwayne Smith could revert to 6 (hopefully, after receiving a rocket for his diabolical run out) with Bravo back at 7.

The problem, as I see it, is that the Windies have thrown too many inexperienced/unproven players in at the same time. The bowling attack, in particular, is crying out for a Dillon, Collins or Collymore. Tino Best clearly isn't ready for ODI cricket, Lawson is returning from remedial action and injury problems and Rampaul is - understandably - fairly inconsistent at this early stage in his career.

The batting has been weakened by the injuries to Wavell Hinds and Marlon Samuels, both of whom looked good against the Aussies last year. As mentioned above, I really don't think we can keep carrying the two sloggers (i.e. Powell and Dwayne Smith), despite their brilliance in the field. Given the paucity of options though, they would have to be replaced by another inexperienced player in Devon Smith.

 

[Kent]

we really need to develop genuine class middle-order batsmen in both forms of the game.

The thing about Fulton is he still looks kind of cumbersome at times. His record can't really be faulted, although I remember either Matthew Bell or Chris Nevin once saying if they got more use of Canterbury's pitches their f/c record would also look very impressive.

Taylor on the other hand is viewed as a prodigy and a potentially world-class player by the academy folk. If they were willing to fast-track Butler, McCullum and Jesse Ryder (who was all set to make the BC squad for Pakistan before he blew it), Taylor would have every right to feel slightly miffed. As a mature-sounding 20 y.o. with experience living overseas as a club's professional, his age is quickly becoming irrelevant.

Whether he can actually block and leave the ball though is still a rather large question mark. Of course, showing scant respect for domestic trundlers didn't stop the young McMillan debuting when he was 20, but you'd like to think we're in better shape now than in 1996.

 

[garage flower]

Aggers kept trying to refer to the fact that NZ are only winning because England & The West Indies were playing poorly..and to some extent he's right, but they've been playing poorly in ODI cricket for awhile.
QUOTE]

So what you're really saying is that England and the Windies are poor sides, rather than sides in poor form as Aggers suggests. I'd pretty much go along with this.

The current, inexperienced, West Indies side certainly looks very fragile and England looked very ordinary without Flintoff.

In the absence of Bond, I think that NZ are a solid, well-drilled, but ultimately unexceptional outfit. Good batting depth, particulalry with McCullum in the side (don't know how good Hopkins is), but pretty unpenetrative bowling, helped out in this series by friendly conditions and poor batting.