**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

[Macka]

Styris' bowling is a bit underrated, with an average of somewhere just over 30, and an economy rate of under 5, doesn't seem too bad to me. He's a lot better than some of the bowlers in the tournament. I see Nasser admitted lastnight that they (the commentators) talk about England too much.

Did Fleming do a McCullum lastnight? That was quite funny. I felt for Harris a bit, I almost lept out of bed when he looked to have his 200th wicket.

Marshall needs to do a bit of work on shorter deliveries and his on side play, but apart from that he looked great again.

Can someone tell me why David Lloyd is called bumble?

 

[Blakey]

Sick to death of this 'poor me' attitude England have. It's like they feel they are gods gift to cricket. ********. They got beaten and beaten badly. If one englishman can score a century after being out of the game for a couple of weeks then the pitch cant be that bad. Get over yourselves England - you got a lesson in how to play. I think the commentators are the same poms who post on the BBC website. Go cry over some warm beer elsewhere.

 

[Tim]

Didn't Fleming have to wait 4 or 5 overs on 99?
McMillan was an idiot..he just couldn't get a run.

Certaintly the toss was a disadvantage..but only for about 5 overs. The sun came out quickly & batting became alot easier after 10 overs into the English innings.

 

[Blakey]

Became monumentally easy to bat after 5 overs. Who knows why the brits think they have reason to complain. They shedualed the games and doctored the pitches to their requirements. Constantly call the Black Caps bits and pieces players - better to be bits and pieces than a so called batsman or bowler who can't do either. By the way was it the pitch and over head conditions which caused their opener to run himself out? Was he finding it that hard not to seam and swing around the pitch?

 

[Mingster]

Fleming was stuck on 99* for 15 minutes. Bloody quarter of an hour!

What was McMillan doing? For a second I thought they were doing a "Aussie WC" and trying to deny someone a bonus point or something....

 

[Macka]

Yeah this England ODI team is a far cry from their test team. I'm glad they got rid of Clarke and McGrath though. I think the pitch did a *bit* at the begining, but Trescothick and Vaughan's dismissals had nothing to do with the pitch.

I thought Strauss and Flintoff could of accelerated their innings a little earlier, but Flintoff did play well and NZ didn't look like losing.

 

[Mingster]

I agree there Macka, they still had Jones who only faced a couple of balls at the end and Collingwood basically lost his wicket in search of risky runs.

Should have started the assault earlier.

 

[Revelation]

Yay Greece!!! It's like Kenya winning the cricket WC!!

 

[Mingster]

Hmmmmm....Kenya have actually won an ODI match though....

 

[meatspx]

NZ IMHO is developing an awesomely balanced ODI side.

2 genuine all-rounders in Oram & Cairns. Cairns has become an entirely different bowler since the last test - he was motivated and bowled as fast as he could hitting the deck. He's a much better bowler when he isn't just trying to place the ball and hoping not to get smashed. Before this series I was thinking that Cairns would develop into a batter who bowled 1 spell per game.

A batting all-rounder in Styirs.

And bowlers who can bat a bit (Vettori, Franklin - though he hasn't contributed with the bat so far in his international career, Bond - when fit).

The only concern is the middle order where McMillan is not just good enough and consistent injuries to their fast bowlers. Replace McMillan for Papps at the top, or a youngster in the middle order, would be my pick for the final. Perhaps giving Papps a shot along with McMillan in the final round robin game would sort the final batting position out.

An ideal ODI team w/o injuries.

Astle
Fleming
Marshall (Give him a shot at #3 in the test-side)
Styirs
Taylor (Or Papps at #1, with Astle at #4/5 or Fleming at #3)
Cairns
Oram
McCullum
Vettori or Harris (Scrap Vettori in the test-side)
Bond (Or Butler)
Tuffey (Or Frankin)

One problem this squad has would be that Buter & Franklin are suited to the longer version of the game. Some think that Astle should drop down the order - away from home this would be OK but at home he should always open. With the batting order being so long NZ could look to promoting a pinch hitter if they get off to a good start - or replacing McMillan with a batter who could open as a pinch hitter (even though this hasn't worked in the past, ie. Spearman/Howell/Nevin).

 

[Tim]

Im still concerned about Vettori....he just doesn't look like improving.
I think it's time we took Bruce Martin to Bangladesh. The selectors actually admitted that they should have taken either Martin or Wiseman for the test series.

I think Peter Fulton will get a go in the ODI's before Ross Taylor does. Fulton will be in his 3rd full season this year whereas Taylor is still only 19 and probably needs another season yet IMO.

Butler could play both ODI's & Tests but i think the writing is on the wall for Franklin that he could well be only suitable for tests.
You need to look no further than Jesse Ryder is you want a pinch-hitter at the top of the order..but he'll need to work bloody hard this season if he wants to get back into the frame for NZ selection.

 

[meatspx]

SB Styris - ODI Bowling - Career summary

(6 ball overs) Mat O R W BB1 BB2 Ave Econ SR
1999 (23y 175d) 5 45.3 220 5 3/63 2/39 44.00 4.83 54.6
2000 (24y 175d) 22 160.5 817 17 4/57 3/37 48.05 5.07 56.7
2001 (25y 175d) 3 29 141 5 3/36 1/45 28.20 4.86 34.8
2002 (26y 175d) 17 87 460 18 6/25 4/30 25.55 5.28 29.0
2003 (27y 175d) 23 136.3 585 23 3/38 2/23 25.43 4.28 35.6
2004 (28y 175d) 15 75 376 15 3/34 2/12 25.06 5.01 30.0

Average (roughly) overs per innings:
1999: 9
2000: 7.5
2001: 10
2002: 5
2003: 6
2004: 5

It's interesting to note that when he was selected as a bowling all-rounder he performed less convincingly with the ball than what he does now.

His economy rate is pretty good considering when he bowls (In the middle of the innings and then again before the final slog - and sometimes duiring the slog if a front-line bowler doesn't perform).

 

[Tim]

Styris has been the one bowler in tests & ODI's recently for NZ that has stood up & taken a wicket when it has really been needed. He might bowl 5 or 6 overs for 30 odd runs but he has the habit of dismissing key batsmen.

 

[meatspx]

Im still concerned about Vettori....he just doesn't look like improving.
I think it's time we took Bruce Martin to Bangladesh. The selectors actually admitted that they should have taken either Martin or Wiseman for the test series.

Wiseman was given a NZC contract along with Vettori - I think this may unfortunately lead the selectors to choose Wiseman over Martin as Vettori's replacement or under-study. Time for the selectors to bite their toungue and admit mistakes have been made. Australia has had problems recently against good left-arm spin bowling - Martin as a bolter? It can be hard to play against bowlers you havent faced before.

 

[Tim]

Well thats why I think NZ need to act ahead of the Aus series by taking Martin to Bangladesh. Give Martin some gametime against Bangladesh, see if he goes ok & then put him in against Australia..rather than just selecting him cold for Australia.

 

[marc71178]

Care to elaborate on "reliable" there mate?

I'd rather him than someone like McGrath (A), or Clarke or any of the bits and pieces bowlers England are employing, but I'd rather Flintoff etc. than him (if that makes sense?)

 

[marc71178]

Became monumentally easy to bat after 5 overs. Who knows why the brits think they have reason to complain.

If it was "monumentally easy", how come our batsman decided to take a long time to settle in?

And who's complaining?

 

[Tim]

I still believe it was more to do with the way they had been playing than anything else.

England were determined to get a safe/solid start & then hit out later which is pretty much what happened except they probably fell 30 or 40 runs short of what they would have liked.

The last thing England wanted yesterday was another 50/5..you could tell the batsmen just wanted to get themselves in & then start playing some shots.
at 57/3..it could have really gone pear-shaped for England if they had lost another 1 or 2 wickets so Flintoff sensibly got himself in & then took toll later on.

 

[marc71178]

I'm beginning to think this not winning batting first is like a millstone round the team's neck.

They haven't done it for so long that they don't think they can do it!

 

[Macka]

If it was "monumentally easy", how come our batsman decided to take a long time to settle in?

And who's complaining?

I don't think it was the easiest pitch to bat on, but not the worst as Flintoff showed. Think of it this way: Vaughan is under pressure at the top, Key has been in good form but hasn't really got a solid place in the England side, and Strauss is new to the team. 3 of England's top 4 are inexperienced or just in plain bad ODI form. I think they were cautious.

I know the pitch was a *bit* better when NZ's top order was in but our top order is much more settled. Fleming of course is there, Astle is NZ's best ever ODI player, Marshall of course, and Styris has proven himself over the last 18 months or so, if not in this tournament yet.

I was wondering if NZ will look to bat first in their last match?