Jasprit Bumrah vs Malcolm Marshall

[centurymaker]

Bumrah hardly bowled 140+ this series. mostly around 134-139. Yet he was most effective.

I remember Dale Steyn picking so many wickets bowling around 135 as opposed to 140-145.

 

[centurymaker]

It really matters about his back and the possibility of another stress fracture which could take him out for a year or longer.

However I disagree about Bumrahs pace. He really is most effective at 140 level which makes his release point so awkward to adjust to.

Stress fracture surgery and recovery takes 5 months or so based on his past history.

Last time he was absent for 11 months solely because they kept not opting for a surgery... Then he finally had his surgery in March 2023 and was back playing international cricket in August 2023.

 

[subshakerz]

Stress fracture surgery and recovery takes 5 months or so based on his past history.

Last time he was absent for 11 months solely because they kept not opting for a surgery... Then he finally had his surgery in March 2023 and was back playing international cricket in August 2023.

Sure but as I mentioned for fast bowlers these niggles can become more common if a bowler has reached a physical limit even if the bowler is bowling well. Not sure if that is the case with Bumrah.

Steyn starting from 2015 was still worldclass but began to have injuries and regularly miss games before being forced to take a longer absence and the returning as half the bowler he was.

 

[centurymaker]

What if Pollock retired after 78 Tests?

Would he have been considered a Top 10 bowler?

78 Tests. 318 wickets @ 20.83.

in Aus : Avg of 27 (6 Tests)
in Eng : Avg of 25 (8 Tests)
in SL : Avg of 22 (3 Tests)
in Pak : Avg of 22 (5 Tests)
in WI : Avg of 23 (5 Tests)
in SA : Avg of 19 (41 Tests)
in Zim : Avg of 18 (3 Tests)
in NZ : Avg of 16 (2 Tests)
in Ind : Avg of 14 (2 Tests)

He was often 2nd to Donald so no.

 

[centurymaker]

Sure but as I mentioned for fast bowlers these niggles can become more common if a bowler has reached a physical limit even if the bowler is bowling well. Not sure if that is the case with Bumrah.

Steyn starting from 2015 was still worldclass but began to have injuries and regularly miss games before being forced to take a longer absence and the returning as half the bowler he was.

But Styen was most effective when he was operating in the mid 130s. Thats when he generated crazy movement.

 

[DrWolverine]

Shaun Pollock often bowled in tandem with Allan Donald. He was not a “support bowler” like Joel Garner. But yeah he was overshadowed by White Lightening

 

[Coronis]

What if Pollock retired after 78 Tests?

Would he have been considered a Top 10 bowler?

78 Tests. 318 wickets @ 20.83.

in Aus : Avg of 27 (6 Tests)
in Eng : Avg of 25 (8 Tests)
in SL : Avg of 22 (3 Tests)
in Pak : Avg of 22 (5 Tests)
in WI : Avg of 23 (5 Tests)
in SA : Avg of 19 (41 Tests)
in Zim : Avg of 18 (3 Tests)
in NZ : Avg of 16 (2 Tests)
in Ind : Avg of 14 (2 Tests)

iirc everyone hates him because he was “second fiddle to Donald”

I mean Donald’s peak was from 96-00 and Pollock’s was 98-03. Looking at the stats where they overlapped is interesting..

98-00
Donald 129 @ 19.50 10 5’fers 1 10’fer
Pollock 122 @ 19.50 6 5’fers

 

[Coronis]

iirc everyone hates him because he was “second fiddle to Donald”

I mean Donald’s peak was from 96-00 and Pollock’s was 98-03. Looking at the stats where they overlapped is interesting..

98-00
27 matches
Donald 129 @ 19.50 10 5’fers 1 10’fer
Pollock 122 @ 19.50 6 5’fers

Here’s one where Garner got the opening ball finally and opened with Marshall.

(84-87)
24 matches
Marshall 130 @ 20.10 10 5’fers 2 10’fers
Garner 113 @ 20.83 4 5’fers

 

[subshakerz]

But Styen was most effective when he was operating in the mid 130s. Thats when he generated crazy movement.

Sure but my point is that it is common for fast bowlers nearing their mid-30s to fade quickly with a quick roll of injuries or simply be reduced as a bowler.

 

[Johan]

Garner one shots Pollock

in both batting and bowling

 

[DrWolverine]

iirc everyone hates him because he was “second fiddle to Donald”

A huge reason for that is their bowling styles.

Allan Donald was super fast, aggressive, in your face and is what you imagine when you think fast bowler.

Shaun Pollock was more methodical, economical, a line and length bowler who just got the job quietly done and he was more than happy to play second fiddle.

 

[subshakerz]

Cummins bowled 163 overs this series, more than Bumrah, yes on the last day was still fit enough that he could pull together a key sharp spell that ended India's hopes. Have to give credit to Cummins' durability.

 

[centurymaker]

Cummins had much better support bowlers. Makes life easier.

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

Bumrah's never going to be as durable as the greats but he will be a fierce memory treasured by everybody that saw him. A forever "what if" and a dissonant paradox because the thing that makes him so special will ultimately be the thing that destroys him. Not quite the stuff of ATGs but sure as hell the stuff of genius.

 

[sayon basak]

Cummins bowled 163 overs this series, more than Bumrah, yes on the last day was still fit enough that he could pull together a key sharp spell that ended India's hopes. Have to give credit to Cummins' durability.

All of Boland, Cummins and Bumrah bowled 17 overs per innings on average. No reason to downplay Bumrah here.

 

[subshakerz]

All of Boland, Cummins and Bumrah bowled 17 overs per innings on average. No reason to downplay Bumrah here.

Boland came mid series. But I'm just giving credit to Cummins' for a last day burst. No doubt Bumrah carried a bigger load we all know that.

 

[sayon basak]

Boland came mid series.

What is that supposed to mean? Playing less test doesn't effect your average overs per innings (if anything it helps you to maintain a high over per innings).

 

[subshakerz]

A huge reason for that is their bowling styles.

Allan Donald was super fast, aggressive, in your face and is what you imagine when you think fast bowler.

Shaun Pollock was more methodical, economical, a line and length bowler who just got the job quietly done and he was more than happy to play second fiddle.

That contrast worked well. Similar to Steyn and Philander. One reason why I think you need Pollock in an ATG XI because Steyn and Donald aren't an ideal new ball pair.

 

[subshakerz]

What is that supposed to mean? Playing less test doesn't effect your average overs per innings (if anything it helps you to maintain a high over per innings).

Yeah but less cumulative load compared to Bumrah and Cummins.

My point was that at the fag end of a tiring 5 test match series Cummins can produce a sharp key spell on the last day, kudos to him. Boland didn't play 5 tests.

 

[honestbharani]

All of Boland, Cummins and Bumrah bowled 17 overs per innings on average. No reason to downplay Bumrah here.

Are you new to salty's "fan"dom?