Fringe Aussie fringe Players who would excel in other teams..

[Zinzan]

Well I might be wrong, but I think a lot of Queenslanders have been saying recently that the 'Gabba isn't nearly as green as it used to be. And I know from players' comments that the 'Gabba is actually a wonderful pitch to bat on if you can survive the first session.

Correct...but you still have to survive the first session and as an opener thats what Hayden does so often for Queensland.

 

[Mr Casson]

Correct...but you still have to survive the first session and as an opener thats what Hayden does so often for Queensland.

Well I'd be interested to know if his average at the 'Gabba is actually anywhere near 54. If it is, well, that will answer one question for the time being...

 

[mavric41]

Well I'd be interested to know if his average at the 'Gabba is actually anywhere near 54. If it is, well, that will answer one question for the time being...

Its more like 60 and he has been doing it for well over a decade.

 

[tooextracool]

Err right....as someone correctly stated earlier , If he (hayden) succeeds, the wickets he played on won't be "seaming wickets", and if he fails, he will just be a poor batsman. If he succeeds in some matches but not in others, the innings where he failed will be on seaming wickets, and the innings where he succeeded will be flat batting tracks.

nope, it will be fairly obvious which tracks are seaming and which arent.

By the way....do you have conclusive statistics to back up your comments that Hayden can't bat on seamer friendly conditions...apart from bringing up his 380 against Zim?? Or is it just an assumption you've made??
Are you suggesting none of Hayden 19 or so test hundreds are ever on seaming wickets??

yes i am, and i've already shown conclusive statistics as to his performances on seamer friendly wickets.

 

[tooextracool]

I believe his stock response to this is "give me an example of a seaming wicket where Hayden has performed", and then when an example is given that wicket isn't a seaming wicket.

Given that the guy averages 54 in FC cricket having played many of his matches on the Gabba wicket, which is renowned for being a seamer-friendly green top as much as any other wicket in the world, I can't see how anyone could think he was an FTB.

i wouldnt claim anything about the gabba wickets for the domestic games since i have no clue about them, but clearly only a fool would call the gabba as green as any other wicket in the world.

 

[tooextracool]

I don't think he is in the top ten at all IMO. Guys like McGrath, Gillespie, Warne, Murali, Kaspa, Pollock, Shoaib, Hamy, Vaas and Kumble are all better. I would even say that day to day Hoggard is a better test bowler. Flintoff on current form is a good bowler but not in the top ten

vaas ahead of flintoff? and its amazing when how everyone is going around talking about how harmison can only take wickets against poor sides you put harmison in there as one of the top 10 bowlers in the world.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Well I might be wrong, but I think a lot of Queenslanders have been saying recently that the 'Gabba isn't nearly as green as it used to be. And I know from players' comments that the 'Gabba is actually a wonderful pitch to bat on if you can survive the first session.

Yeah, from what I have seen that's certainly true, like most other pitches these days it has less for bowlers than it used to. Still, Hayden has been playing FC cricket for Queensland with immense success since the early 90s, when the Gabba was still certainly a seamers wicket. Even now Gabba greentops aren't unheard of, and it's as good a wicket for seam bowling as any in Australia, excluding the WACA. In fact, in terms of actual swing and seam movement it probably has more than the WACA, which is more known for its pace and bounce.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I don't think he is in the top ten at all IMO. Guys like McGrath, Gillespie, Warne, Murali, Kaspa, Pollock, Shoaib, Hamy, Vaas and Kumble are all better. I would even say that day to day Hoggard is a better test bowler. Flintoff on current form is a good bowler but not in the top ten

How can you validate Hoggard's bowling average of high 20s lately over Flintoff's drop from 45 to 33podd over a couple years? Also, do you seriously consider Harmison a better bowler on form right now? Let's consider this, one of the two would be an automatic choice for the England Test and ODI team if fit. Have a guess as to which one...

 

[marc71178]

He had it up to the day he retired from test cricket

According to who?!

 

[marc71178]

sorry i meant Vaas

I still ask the same question.

 

[Mr Casson]

Its more like 60 and he has been doing it for well over a decade.

OK, now show me conclusive evidence that Hayden has played most of his games at the 'Gabba batting first.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

OK, now show me conclusive evidence that Hayden has played most of his games at the 'Gabba batting first.

That's beside the point. It is reasonable to suppose that he has batted on the first morning at the Gabba and done well given the following:

a) he plays FC cricket for Queensland, and therefore plays at the Gabba regularly

b) he has an excellent FC average which is even better at the Gabba

c) he is an opening batsman


Whether Queensland happened to bat first 55% of the time or 40% of the time in those games is irrelevant. The fact is that it's pretty bizarre to claim that somebody who has played so well on a wicket renowned for seaming early on as an opening batsmen struggles universally in seaming conditions...

 

[Mr Casson]

That's beside the point. It is reasonable to suppose that he has batted on the first morning at the Gabba and done well given the following:

a) he plays FC cricket for Queensland, and therefore plays at the Gabba regularly

b) he has an excellent FC average which is even better at the Gabba

c) he is an opening batsman


Whether Queensland happened to bat first 55% of the time or 40% of the time in those games is irrelevant. The fact is that it's pretty bizarre to claim that somebody who has played so well on a wicket renowned for seaming early on as an opening batsmen struggles universally in seaming conditions...

Well it's quite possible that he played 60% or more of his games not batting first.. and it's also quite possible that he hasn't opened for his entire career.

 

[Zinzan]

That's beside the point. It is reasonable to suppose that he has batted on the first morning at the Gabba and done well given the following:

a) he plays FC cricket for Queensland, and therefore plays at the Gabba regularly

b) he has an excellent FC average which is even better at the Gabba

c) he is an opening batsman


Whether Queensland happened to bat first 55% of the time or 40% of the time in those games is irrelevant. The fact is that it's pretty bizarre to claim that somebody who has played so well on a wicket renowned for seaming early on as an opening batsmen struggles universally in seaming conditions...

Agree entirely ....Its almost like suggesting Murali does bowl well on dry cracking pitches on the 5th day...

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Well it's quite possible that he played 60% or more of his games not batting first.. and it's also quite possible that he hasn't opened for his entire career.

Well, I can't tell you if he has opened in every single FC match he has played, but he has definately opened in every test he has played (one of very few cricketers who have done that, in fact), and here is his first FC match in 1991, where he also opened.

http://uk.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1991-92/AUS_LOCAL/SS/QLD_SOA_SS_01-04NOV1991.html

So, I think it's fair to say that if he hasn't opened in every single match, it's pretty damn close.

 

[Mr Casson]

Well, I can't tell you if he has opened in every single FC match he has played, but he has definately opened in every test he has played (one of very few cricketers who have done that, in fact), and here is his first FC match in 1991, where he also opened.

http://uk.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1991-92/AUS_LOCAL/SS/QLD_SOA_SS_01-04NOV1991.html

So, I think it's fair to say that if he hasn't opened in every single match, it's pretty damn close.

More power to him for an innings like that on debut then... although I'm not sure if the 'Gabba really qualifies as a seaming wicket because I've not seen it give consistent seam movement for an entire match. Then again, I haven't seen too many matches at the 'Gabba.

 

[mavric41]

Which wicket in Australia would be a seaming wicket if the Gabba is not. It is one of the few times when the captain ins the toss he thinks about putting the opposition in.

Its no secret that Qld has had some great fast bowlers (Rackemann, Tazelaar, McDermott, Bichel, Kaspa etc) who love bowling at the Gabba.

 

[Mr Casson]

Which wicket in Australia would be a seaming wicket if the Gabba is not. It is one of the few times when the captain ins the toss he thinks about putting the opposition in.

Its no secret that Qld has had some great fast bowlers (Rackemann, Tazelaar, McDermott, Bichel, Kaspa etc) who love bowling at the Gabba.

I don't know any recent captain who thinks about putting the opposition in. Steve Waugh said that a lot of touring captains get fooled by the grassy covering and choose foolishly to bowl. It sounds to me as though he would never have contemplated it.

 

[Zinzan]

Which wicket in Australia would be a seaming wicket if the Gabba is not. It is one of the few times when the captain ins the toss he thinks about putting the opposition in.

Its no secret that Qld has had some great fast bowlers (Rackemann, Tazelaar, McDermott, Bichel, Kaspa etc) who love bowling at the Gabba.

I know which wicket Richard Hadlee liked the best

 

[Zinzan]

I'd like to know what is considered a "seaming" wicket according to Haydens critics??