Australian all-rounder position

[luckyeddie]

Gentlemen (ha!), RC has only played 1 first-class season. Talk of him being an all-rounder as yet is premature.

He looks to be a very quick learner, and the experience he will have picked up in Bangladesh will probably serve him well in the future.

Primarily a batsman who bowls a bit would be someone live Vaughan or Butcher, primarily a bowler who bats a bit would be Giles (if you ignore the bit about bowling). All-rounder would be Flintoff. Clarke looks to be useful at both although I will reserve judgment until he has played against an international side of merit.

I now return this thread to discussing Australian all-rounders

 

[age_master]

Yes but he bowls and bats more than Clarke does...therefor he's more of an all-rounder, because he actually does both most of the time...

yeah but you will find that generally everyone bats and not everyone bowls, Clarke doesn't bowl much cause hes not as good a bowler as Katich or Macgill. one of whom is the best leg spinner in the world, the other is also quite good, better than most spinners going around the first class world at the moment. but yeah Clarke is a part time bowler. but Giles is a full time bowler - not an all rounder either

 

[Rik]

yeah but you will find that generally everyone bats and not everyone bowls, Clarke doesn't bowl much cause hes not as good a bowler as Katich or Macgill. one of whom is the best leg spinner in the world, the other is also quite good, better than most spinners going around the first class world at the moment. but yeah Clarke is a part time bowler. but Giles is a full time bowler - not an all rounder either

I'm sorry but MacGill the best leggie in the world? He's bowled pretty well but he can be seriously innacurate and usually serves up one poor ball an over. Oh and your forgetting a certain SK Warne...

Katich better than many in the world in FC cricket? Arrogance speaking again.

SORRY WRONG ANSWER PLEASE TRY AGAIN

There you go, Anglo-American arrogance for you.

Katich may be a useful bowler but I cannot agree that he's a better wrist spinner than most in domestic cricket around the world, there are some very fine players and Katich is still pretty much a part-timer.

Giles is not an all-rounder, but he fufils more of the credentials required to earn the role of all-rounder than Michael Clarke, IE he bats and is now scoring runs regularly, and bowls in every game. Clarke has only bowled 3 times in his 6 ODIs, even less in his domestic career in both forms.

 

[marc71178]

If you want an all-rounder look at Khaled Mahmud. Ok he's basically rubbish but every time he plays he bats and bowls which consititutes a definition of "all-rounder". Who cares that he's all-round rubbish at everything? It's the phrase we are talking about here, the lable of "all-rounder", not ability.

Side note, but the Bangladeshi national newspaper asked during the last series if the term all-rounder referred to his girth...

 

[Rik]

Side note, but the Bangladeshi national newspaper asked during the last series if the term all-rounder referred to his girth...

Yeah read that artical, raised a chuckle

 

[marc71178]

Clarke doesn't bowl much cause hes not as good a bowler as Katich or Macgill. one of whom is the best leg spinner in the world, the other is also quite good, better than most spinners going around the first class world at the moment.

Whatever you're smoking, can I have some please?

MacGill best leggie in the world? Erm, Warne, Kaneria, Schofield (OK I put the last one in as a joke)

Katich better than most FC spinners? - No matter how far I think you've gone as being too far, you just seem to push it a little bit more - I thought NSW would beat any Test side was OTT, but it pales into significance compared with this!

 

[age_master]

Whatever you're smoking, can I have some please?

MacGill best leggie in the world? Erm, Warne, Kaneria, Schofield (OK I put the last one in as a joke)

Katich better than most FC spinners? - No matter how far I think you've gone as being too far, you just seem to push it a little bit more - I thought NSW would beat any Test side was OTT, but it pales into significance compared with this!

warne is suspended and doesn't count

most FC spinner, not test spinners but FC spinners, i mean, howw many spinners bowl in county cricket, how many are better than him 1 not counting internationals, zimbabwe - ray price the only half descant spinner there - WI not really anyone maybe 1 or 2 better than Katich, RSA once again, maybe 1 spinner better than him - when you think about it there are a hell of alot of spinners going around, all i said was that he was better than most of those, not necessarily anyone particularly good like Kumble or Mushtaq etc.

 

[Rik]

warne is suspended and doesn't count

Warne hasn't retired so he does. If you had said "Best leggie currently playing" I might have let you off, however.

most FC spinner, not test spinners but FC spinners, i mean, howw many spinners bowl in county cricket, how many are better than him 1 not counting internationals, zimbabwe - ray price the only half descant spinner there - WI not really anyone maybe 1 or 2 better than Katich, RSA once again, maybe 1 spinner better than him - when you think about it there are a hell of alot of spinners going around, all i said was that he was better than most of those, not necessarily anyone particularly good like Kumble or Mushtaq etc.

I know you said he was better than those and that is why I disagreed. For your information we have rather a lot of spinner bowling in County Cricket, and many who bowled more overs than Katich did for Hampshire and many who I would rate a lot higher anyway. Jason "Fish" Brown, 66 wickets at 23.71 in all FC, 65 at 22.60 in the CC. Graeme Swann, 33 wickets at 23 in CC, 20 at 17.80 in all List A OD cricket. Gareth Batty, 60 wickets at 26.25 in all FC, 53 at 27.09 in CC, 17 at 30.76 in all List A OD. Gary Keedy (rated by many as the best spinner in England at the moment), 60 wickets at 25.53 in CC. Robert Croft (who I personally don't rate at all, but who finally pulled his finger out at FC level for the 1st time in ages), 65 wickets at 29.66 in FC cricket, 62 at 30.20 in CC, 21 at 32.04 in all List A OD. James Middlebrook, 56 wickets at 35.33 in FC. Martyn Ball, 26 at 36.00 in all FC, 28 at 24.07 in all List A OD. Ian Fisher, 28 at 27.39 in both FC and CC, 3 at 15.00 in all List A OD. Shaun Udal (Katich's Hamshire team-mate last season), 42 at 32.14 in all FC, 25 at 27.60 in all List A OD.

Now compared to Katich, 17 at 34.76 in both FC and CC, 6 at 30.66 in all List A OD. Career record 62 wickets at 35.29 in FC and 24 at 28.54 in all List A OD.

No comparison

 

[Rik]

Whatever you're smoking, can I have some please?

Didn't know you smoked, especially smoking whatever he has.

 

[age_master]

Warne hasn't retired so he does. If you had said "Best leggie currently playing" I might have let you off, however.[/B]

i dunno, Warne vs if played in a week or so (macgill has again failed his fitness test) i would back macgill to bowl better

As for Katich, we shall wait and see when hes done more bowling, as hes only had a few matches on turning wickets. give him abit more time to get used to bowling more we will wait and see

 

[deeps]

I thought NSW would beat any Test side was OTT, but it pales into significance compared with this!

Haha,i don't think they could beat ANY test playing nation...but i reckon they could beat alot of them...They have lots of great players...The NSW team:

M.Waugh
M.Slater
S.Katich
M.Clarke
S.Waugh
M.Bevan
B.Haddin
B.Lee
S.Macgill
N.Bracken
G.Mcgrath

look at that team...all have played test matches for Australia, most of them are currently in the test squad... The rest are on the brink of test selection:
S.Katich,B.Haddin,Macgill,Bracken

M.Bevan is a very good test player,but the aussie test selectors have something against him...

Then they also have Matthew Nicholson, Phil Jaques(he'll be very good!) and Aaron O'brien (also plenty of talent...keep an eye on hiM!)

This team could beat the current west indies eleven (i'mnot sayin they are a better team...but they can beat them) , they can beat the current Bangladesh eleven, zimbabwean eleven, english eleven, and possibly even indian eleven ( i doubt that thougH)

The key player is Steve Waugh,..with him in the team, NSW rarely lose a game...He has this ability to win games from nothing (ala the ING cup match against Western warriors...AND countless other test matches and ODI's for australia...no1 can argue with that)

 

[Gaijin-san]

Rik, what do you do for a living? I didn't realize you could be a full time pedant.

 

[Rik]

Rik, what do you do for a living? I didn't realize you could be a full time pedant.

Whatever I do Ged is of none of your concern. But at least it keeps me away long enough to spare me from having to read rubbish like this.

 

[marc71178]

As for Katich, we shall wait and see when hes done more bowling, as hes only had a few matches on turning wickets. give him abit more time to get used to bowling more we will wait and see

Why should we do that?

How often do English spinners bowl on turning wickets?

Not very often, yet they get bagged for being poor, and the Aussies get given the chance to see how they do?

 

[marc71178]

Didn't know you smoked, especially smoking whatever he has.

Well, from his postings, it must be very good stuff, so I will sell it at a huge profit!

 

[Top_Cat]

Whatever I do Ged is of none of your concern. But at least it keeps me away long enough to spare me from having to read rubbish like this.

So does exercising your democratic right to avoid clicking on the thread title.

 

[marc71178]

Haha,i don't think they could beat ANY test playing nation...but i reckon they could beat alot of them

Had this argument before - about 2 people agreed, the rest showed sense.

 

[luckyeddie]

Rik, what do you do for a living? I didn't realize you could be a full time pedant.

Uncalled for.

Rik, Marc and myself are only part-time pedants (we live in the wrong hemisphere to be able to turn pro) - and much as I disagree with him on occasion, I will defend his right to continue being wrong.

 

[age_master]

Why should we do that?

How often do English spinners bowl on turning wickets?

Not very often, yet they get bagged for being poor, and the Aussies get given the chance to see how they do?

one question for you, if all of these spinners are supposed to be so good, than why has one Richard Dawson played 7 tests. ive seen more than enought to know how good he is....

 

[Top_Cat]

Call me crazy, call me kooky, call me wacky but I think Dawson has potential. Sure he doesn't tweak the ball much at this stage but I reckon he looked alright. Solid, rather than spectacular at this stage.