A.F.L Thread

[Jono]

Hayes
McGuire
Hamill
Kozi lacking fitness
X Clarke lacking fitness
R Clarke lacking fitness
Ball hasn't been fit all year due to osteitis pubis.


Every single one of those players would make any team in the league.

Fair call on Ball... and Hamill, but I've given up on him.

Every team is 'lacking' a Xavier Clarke or someone who gets injured though.

 

[Jono]

And on the 04>06 what exactly are you basing that on? Who did they have then that they don't have now?

Brent Guerra.






















In all seriousness, Gehrig, Hamill and Harvey were all younger and better, and Riewoldt was playing up forward... where a forward like him should be. They had Heath Black too didn't they?

 

[cameeel]

Haha turn it up McKern.


The reason they're rated so highly is their personnel, look how many top quality (I'm talking top echelon) players they have out or not fully fit. Whether or not they can get those players out on the paddock at the one time is the only issue, but they have the best list in the league by a margain.

St. Kilda don't have that many upper echelon players, what they have is a high proportion of 2nd tier players who by now, should be in that top tier.

Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo are probably their three 'top echelon players', with Ball, Koschitzke, and Maguire a rung or two below.

 

[cameeel]

Top 6 teams IMO:

Adelaide
West Coast
---
Sydney
St Kilda
Melbourne
Bulldogs at full strength, otherwise Freo or Collingwood, who really cares?

Really?

There's no way I'd rate Sydney that high if we're rating based on player quality.

Sydney don't actually have that much talent compared to some of the clubs you've listed, but what they do have is the best, or 2nd best tactical coaching team in the competition.

But their players alone aren't the 3rd best in the league.

 

[benchmark00]

Brent Guerra.






















In all seriousness, Gehrig, Hamill and Harvey were all younger and better, and Riewoldt was playing up forward... where a forward like him should be. They had Heath Black too didn't they?

Heath black is easily replaced by say... Gram, who has been better.
Can also add Troy Schwarze to the injury list, not a superstar, but very handy and he'd be in their top 22.

Hamill will be back next week, or week after.

On the issue of Harvey, Gehrig , Hamill and Riewoldt -

Harvey - Not noticeable drop off IMO
Gehrig - Noticeable drop off, I agree
Hamill - Can't tell
Riewoldt - Career best form.

 

[benchmark00]

St. Kilda don't have that many upper echelon players, what they have is a high proportion of 2nd tier players who by now, should be in that top tier.

Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo are probably their three 'top echelon players', with Ball, Koschitzke, and Maguire a rung or two below.

Are you *****ing me? Garry Lyon said that Ball will win at least one Brownlow, Kozzy is an absolute star, one of the best talls in the comp, and Goose is in the top 4 backman in the game.

 

[Jono]

Riewoldt's had a good year, but you honestly reckon he's having a better year than in 2004?

If St Kilda don't win the flag this year, that'll be the 2nd consecutive year that people will use the "well if they got their best players on the park..." excuse. Fair enough if it occurs in one season, but two in a row?

 

[Jono]

St. Kilda don't have that many upper echelon players, what they have is a high proportion of 2nd tier players who by now, should be in that top tier.

Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo are probably their three 'top echelon players', with Ball, Koschitzke, and Maguire a rung or two below.

Ball is top tier, and Hughton is in the top 3 full backs in the league, hence top tier as well.

 

[Jono]

Really?

There's no way I'd rate Sydney that high if we're rating based on player quality.

Sydney don't actually have that much talent compared to some of the clubs you've listed, but what they do have is the best, or 2nd best tactical coaching team in the competition.

But their players alone aren't the 3rd best in the league.

Player quality? I've been basing my teams on how good they are when at their best, not on how much talent there is on the list. Sydney are a very good team, and they have underrated players like O'Keefe and Buchanan anyway, just because they're up north people don't realise how good they are.

 

[benchmark00]

Riewoldt's had a good year, but you honestly reckon he's having a better year than in 2004?

If St Kilda don't win the flag this year, that'll be the 2nd consecutive year that people will use the "well if they got their best players on the park..." excuse. Fair enough if it occurs in one season, but two in a row?

Apart from Bulldogs, they've been the most injury hit team in the league, not in terms of number of injuries but quality of injuries.

I don't think Thomas is in the top eight coaches in the league, but I do believe if they could consistently get their players on the park they're the best in the comp. It sounds like an easy way out, but it's the truth and a very legitimate excuse. Geelong however, don't have a legitimate excuse like the Saints.

 

[Jono]

Off topic boys, but this week the great Glenn Archer was on SEN, and pretty much said that he doesn't really care too much about the Brownlow, and said if they renamed it "Umpire's Medal", which it really is, no one would give a crap.

Tim Watson asked if he'd rather win the AFLPA MVP Awards, and he said hands down. He'd also rather win the B & F for his club.

Huge call, but I completely agree, at least when it comes to the MVP Award. That award is the most prestigious personal award in the league IMO. Firstly, the Brownlow is far too skewed towards midfielders. And when you see players like Carey, Dunstall, Ablett who never won Brownlows, but have MVP Awards to their name, its clearly the more accurate award.

Other occasions include McKernan in 96, who was the best player that season, better than Voss, Hird and Chris Grant, and Kouta in 2000 who was far better than Woewoedin that year but got injured.

The only huge call it really made IMO was giving Riewoldt it in 2004 ahead of Judd.

 

[benchmark00]

Yeah no question about MVP being a better judge of best player IMO, however it will never have the presitige of the Brownlow, so people normally just get taken in by that.

Just shows with Carey, how he never won a Brownlow is nothing short of a disgrace, but he's picked up a couple (I think) MVP awards.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Add McLeod and McKernan to the list of players who have won MVP awards but not Brownlows. And no Woewodin...

 

[cameeel]

Player quality? I've been basing my teams on how good they are when at their best, not on how much talent there is on the list. Sydney are a very good team, and they have underrated players like O'Keefe and Buchanan anyway, just because they're up north people don't realise how good they are.

Sydney won a premiership, and continue to do well not because of them being a highly talented list, but because tactically, they are far better than the other teams in the league (with the possible exception of Adelaide, and on occasion, Richmond)

 

[cameeel]

Are you *****ing me? Garry Lyon said that Ball will win at least one Brownlow, Kozzy is an absolute star, one of the best talls in the comp, and Goose is in the top 4 backman in the game.

You may be right with Ball, i haven't seen enough of him outside of '06 (osteitis pubis) to make too harsh a call.

But with Kosichtzke, he can''t be classed as an "absolute star" until he manages to string together a consistent 15 or so games. So far, injuries to blame or not, he's just showed flashes of brilliance while only actually playing 10 games a year.

And there's no way that Maguire is in the top 4 defenders in the game. Would you rank him above Fletcher, Rutten, Michael, Clement and Scarlett?

 

[cameeel]

I hate the Fremantle song.

 

[benchmark00]

You may be right with Ball, i haven't seen enough of him outside of '06 (osteitis pubis) to make too harsh a call.

But with Kosichtzke, he can''t be classed as an "absolute star" until he manages to string together a consistent 15 or so games. So far, injuries to blame or not, he's just showed flashes of brilliance while only actually playing 10 games a year.

And there's no way that Maguire is in the top 4 defenders in the game. Would you rank him above Fletcher, Rutten, Michael, Clement and Scarlett?

I would rate Maguire above all of them, maybe equal with Clement and Rutten.

Kozzy won the rising star before Riewoldt, just remember that. You're only seeing when he's been injured. Take for instance last year when he came back and absolutely dominated for 4 games or so, then got injured again.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Get off it if you rate Maguire equal with Clement and Rutten. Ridiculous comment.

Glass, Clement, Scarlett, Fletcher, Rutten and a couple of others are better players.

 

[benchmark00]

Get off it if you rate Maguire equal with Clement and Rutten. Ridiculous comment.

Glass, Clement, Scarlett, Fletcher, Rutten and a couple of others are better players.

Ha, what a joke.

 

[cameeel]

I would rate Maguire above all of them, maybe equal with Clement and Rutten.

Kozzy won the rising star before Riewoldt, just remember that. You're only seeing when he's been injured. Take for instance last year when he came back and absolutely dominated for 4 games or so, then got injured again.

I'm not saying that he isn't talented, if he gets on an injury-free run he has the potential to be in the top 10 players for the competition.
My point is that you can't rank him amongst the top echelon players in the league based on a rising star award in 2001. Since his debut, he's only played 73 games, and until he strings together a run of games and is consistently excellent in those games, he can't be ranked in the top tier of AFL players.