13 overrated players of the last 20 odd years

[Arjun]

how is Dravid underrated? Who doesn't rate him highly?

The Indiatimes slideshows don't rate him highly in ODI's- they still think he's a misfit!

 

[shaka]

I no we should not be argueing about who's da better spinner, Murali has 121 wickets in 18 tests v Bangladesh and Zimbabwe while Warne only has 6 wickets in 1 test.

 

[Swervy]

Warne is a great spinner but he is nowhere near Muttiah Muralitharan.Warne is practically useless when McGrath is not playing while Murali alone has to do the job for his team.IMO,Muralitharan is the best spinner of all time & Warne can never touch his greatness if he plays cricket even for next 50 years.U may call Warne the best leg spinner of all time,but overall no one can claim to be better than legendary Muttiah Muralitharan.

practically useless???

obviously, as shown by 4/102,4/31,4/116,6/46 in the recent series without McGrath

 

[a massive zebra]

I no we should not be argueing about who's da better spinner, Murali has 121 wickets in 18 tests v Bangladesh and Zimbabwe while Warne only has 6 wickets in 1 test.

And Murali's record is still better if we exclude these two teams. For much of Murali's career Zimbabwe were not that bad.

 

[a massive zebra]

Warne is a great spinner but he is nowhere near Muttiah Muralitharan.Warne is practically useless when McGrath is not playing while Murali alone has to do the job for his team.IMO,Muralitharan is the best spinner of all time & Warne can never touch his greatness if he plays cricket even for next 50 years.U may call Warne the best leg spinner of all time,but overall no one can claim to be better than legendary Muttiah Muralitharan.

Not practically useless, more like Anil Kumble standard. Otherwise your post is a good one - nearly all the stats point strongly to Murali.

 

[a massive zebra]

practically useless???

obviously, as shown by 4/102,4/31,4/116,6/46 in the recent series without McGrath

Oh because two matches mean so much, eh? Take a look at his overall figures without McGrath - from memory I believe he averages 27.28 without the great man, and over 28 before this series. In other words, Anil Kumble standard.

 

[Swervy]

Oh because two matches mean so much, eh? Take a look at his overall figures without McGrath - from memory I believe he averages 27.28 without the great man, and over 28 before this series. In other words, Anil Kumble standard.

and then you take into account Kumble plays half his games in India and Warne plays half his games in Australia!!!!!!!

 

[C_C]

and then you take into account Kumble plays half his games in India and Warne plays half his games in Australia!!!!!!!

Okay. So by THAT standard, no Aussie or Windies pacer can touch Akram or Imran because they played over half their careers on unfriendly wickets.

 

[a massive zebra]

and then you take into account Kumble plays half his games in India and Warne plays half his games in Australia!!!!!!!

If Warne played half his games in India he would not have made it as a Test match bowler. Do you need reminding about his stellar performances in the 'spinners paradise.'

 

[Shoaib]

practically useless???

obviously, as shown by 4/102,4/31,4/116,6/46 in the recent series without McGrath

We r not discussing only current peformances here.

 

[a massive zebra]

We r not discussing only current peformances here.

Indeed.

 

[Swervy]

Okay. So by THAT standard, no Aussie or Windies pacer can touch Akram or Imran because they played over half their careers on unfriendly wickets.

I agree..but all I was doing was raising the point of the absurdity of saying Warne is of Kumble standard when McGrath is not playing....its just manipulation of stats to suit ones arguement

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Okay. So by THAT standard, no Aussie or Windies pacer can touch Akram or Imran because they played over half their careers on unfriendly wickets.

Actually, Akram and Imran are Pakistani, and Pakistani wickets through the 80s and 90s were certainly not unfriendly to seamers like Indian wickets. Not only were they abrasive and suited reverse swing, but conditions usually suit conventional swing in Pakistan more than somewhere like Australia, and in fact the pitches were generally prepared to suit the locals. Someone like Imran played on just as many seamer-friendly pitches as Dennis Lillee did.

Kapil Dev would be a much better example, and like Warne his average suffered somewhat because of the situation he was forced to play in.

 

[honestbharani]

I have to point out one thing here. I heard some of the forum members bring up the point about MacGill mainly reaping rewards from Warney's tight bowling at the other end and picking up wickets from bad shots caused by the good bowling of Warney and also picking up a lot of the tailenders. Can't the same thing be said about Warne vis-a-vis McGrath?

 

[Shoaib]

Someone like Imran played on just as many seamer-friendly pitches as Dennis Lillee did.

And this sentence of your post is a blatant lie because Dennis Lillee himself declared Pakistani pitches to be graveyard for seamers.Please don't use such cheap tactics to prove that Warne is better than Muttiah "The Little Magician" Mualitharan.IMO,Warne is the best leg spinner of all time ,but overall,Muraltharan is twice as good as Warne & no one can deprive the little magician from the title of "Best Spinner of ALL Time"

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

And this sentence of your post is a blatant lie because Dennis Lillee himself declared Pakistani pitches to be graveyard for seamers.Please don't use such cheap tactics to prove that Warne is better than Muttiah "The Little Magician" Mualitharan.IMO,Warne is the best leg spinner of all time ,but overall,Muraltharan is twice as good as Warne & no one can deprive the little magician from the title of "Best Spinner of ALL Time"

Err, I'm not talking about Warne and Muralitharan at all. I'm talking about Imran and Wasim and whether or not they were at an innate disadvantage because they were from Pakistan. There's a reason Pakistan have consistently produced quality seam bowlers like Fazal Mahmood, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib and so on.

I do, however, think that Warne would have a better record if he had consistently played on spin-friendly pitches. If you compare Warne and Muralitharan's records away from home (where obviously both play on roughly the same pitches), Warne's record is better despite the fact that only one of his away matches has been against Zimbabwe or Bangladesh. So, Warne has a better record away than Murali, and Warne also has a better record IN Sri Lanka than Muralitharan does. Muralitharan's record in Sri Lanka is far better than Warne's in Australia though, which is why his overall career average is significantly lower.

Anyway, this really isn't the point, I was simply saying that someone like Kapil Dev would be a better example of someone who's average suffered from the pitches he played on as a seamer than Imran. Kapil adapted of course, but he certainly would have had more opportunities elsewhere.

 

[Shoaib]

There's a reason Pakistan have consistently produced quality seam bowlers like Fazal Mahmood, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib and so on.

The only reason is that we play cricket in our streets/grounds with tape ball (solution tape rolled over tennis ball) which provides the natural swing & help our bowlers to learn reverse swing and several other techniques despite the conditons not suiting the seamers & when these pacers start playing professional cricket ,they r trained enough to do the same things with real cricket ball.Pakistan is the only country of the world where there is tradition of learning & playing cricket with tape ball.If u have decent speed,play cricket with tape ball for 3-5 years & u'll find unbelievale improvments in your bowling.Our guys love to take up their cricket careers as fast owlers because they get the rewards ecause if their childhood learnings despite conditions not suiting them.A guy like Pratyush can explain this thing better to u because he has more knowledge about this matter as compared to me.Before having conversations with him,I myself didn't know that tape ball cricket is played only in Pakistan.

 

[marc71178]

Oh because two matches mean so much, eh? Take a look at his overall figures without McGrath - from memory I believe he averages 27.28 without the great man, and over 28 before this series. In other words, Anil Kumble standard.

It's actually under 26 and a half.

 

[aussie]

Warne is a great spinner but he is nowhere near Muttiah Muralitharan.Warne is practically useless when McGrath is not playing while Murali alone has to do the job for his team.IMO,Muralitharan is the best spinner of all time & Warne can never touch his greatness if he plays cricket even for next 50 years.U may call Warne the best leg spinner of all time,but overall no one can claim to be better than legendary Muttiah Muralitharan.

Warne usless without McGrath nonsense did you not watch the ashes, did you miss the sri lanka series last year. The argument that because Murali is the only great bowler in his side & has takes all the wickets is better than Warne because Warne has McGrath who usually takes the major wickets is flawed because the few times McGrath hasn't played i.e 1 match or a series e.g 2005 Ashes, 2004 tour to Sri Lanka Warne has done has been just as treatening towards top order batsmen, so this argument is a bit pointless.

 

[Hit4Six]

warne isn't over rated, hes a legend no two ways about it. murali to warne is what grand theft auto: san andreas was to grand theft auto 3. SA is the better game but GTA3 will always remain a gr8 game simply becoz it was great when it first came out and still delivers the goods. murali can debatably called be the better bowler but warne is not over rated simply coz murali has come along, warne remains light years ahead of lots of other spinners.