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  1. B

    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    RSA got to play their best 6 bats instead of 5. You do recognize this, yes? Other teams aren't relevant to the value he brought to RSA. His role wouldn't be the same in them. For a bunch of other teams he'd probably have been an opening bowler, take stacks more WPM, and have a shorter career...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    He makes the team as a bat if he didn't bowl. His bowling gave an extra specialist bat, and an upgrade on bowling. Your second paragraph is a funny way of saying 'the evidence I asked for shows the exact opposite of what I was hoping for, so I'm going to try find an explanation that doesn't...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    I assume the two you think have 6 bats are when Hall opened? He was a bits and pieces player, promoted to open from number 9, Jack Leach style, cos RSA didn't have an opener. The guys you are calling ARs are what I've been calling bad bits and pieces players. The highest test batting average...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;player_involve=2232;player_involve_type=none;spanmax2=31+dec+2009;spanmin2=01+jan+2001;spanval2=span;team=3;template=results;type=aggregate;view=match That's all the matches Kallis missed in the...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    I didn't claim Kallis gave a bat every game, just a significant portion of them. You don't need 100% for the value add from Kallis' bowling to be way, way above the wickets he takes. All 3 games had 5 specialist bats. Across the matches cumulatively, there's Pollock, a couple of guys who...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    Nel is a comment on quality, not output. If a specialist bowler and your best bat are of similar quality, you are definitely going to bowl the specialist more. I checked 3 matches Kallis missed in the 2000s. First 2 and last. 5 bats. Last one they even played 5 quicks. Kallis very much gave RSA...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    Do you believe that Kallis the player helped his team by playing longer? Do you believe Kallis when he said he would not be able to play as long if he didn't dial back the bowling. If the answer both of these is yes, then you are penalising him for a smart call. Fair point on the...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    I entirely get the thought process behind marking him down in relation to someone like Sobers in output per game. I doubt I would rate Sobers ahead if not for it. But it's crazy to ask him to carry a workload multiple tiers above what anyone else has managed. And it's crazy to penalize him for...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    I assume you mean for bowling only? Losing him completely as a bowler would likely see him lost as a bat too, which would be a huge loss. He said he was cutting back on bowling to extent his shelf life as a player, not a bowler. Even just bowling, it's better. His bowling was limited to the...
  10. B

    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    Would RSA have been a better team if Kallis had taken 3 WPM but only played 100 games? Marginally for those hundred games, but far worse for the games he was not playing. However you assess his low WPM in terms of personal quality, bowling him less was good for the team. And there is a very...
  11. B

    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    The advantage for batting lower is entirely derived from tired bowlers and the aging ball. Not outs are not good for the average when weighed against the opportunity to complete an innings. The expected runs from a bat increase the more they score. One thing you can criticize a bat for about...
  12. B

    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    Im sure some people would rate him higher if he had the same number of wickets over fewer tests. I likely would too. But it would be wrong, at least as far as winning more games for RSA goes. His bowling quality is independent of the amount he bowled, unless you think he would be tired from too...
  13. B

    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    Cumulative load is definitely a thing, especially for fast bowlers. Anderson aside, a ton of quicks have capped out at around 40k international deliveries, irrespective of career length. Kallis said he was cutting down the bowling to prolong the career. And all the ARs who were carrying a...
  14. B

    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    The main value he brought (from the 2000s when there weren't as many ARs) wasn't in the wickets themselves. It was playing the extra bat. That value is there even if he doesn't bowl at all. In his case, the value of his bowling was that of a specialist bat in a chunk of games. In some other...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    I don't think anyone argues that his bowling load per game was that of a frontliner (except maybe in very brief patches)? Are you mixing that up with bowling load across career? Not many bowlers sent down more than him in total. It wasn't his role to bowl a lot per game, and it would have been...
  16. B

    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    His bowling was almost never match winning in isolation, and a few instances in a long career don't change this. His bowling allowed RSA to field an extra bat. That would have won a lot of matches. Having 5 bowlers has a big impact too. You don't need your 5th bowler soloing it. The odd wicket...
  17. B

    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    I rate Imran's performances in both primary and secondary higher than Kallis. Kallis was probably a better bowler than Imran was a bat though. Averages don't really reflect this, but Kallis bowled at tough times and Imran scored most of his runs from an easy batting position. Kallis toned down...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    The original writeup on cricinfo about the cricinfo team had a sentence about Akram that said, IIRC, ''Is he there strictly there for variety?''. It's amusingly contemptuous, but not entirely wrong. He's a pretty solid ATG XI pick, but picking him just on bowling quality would be iffy.
  19. B

    Imran Khan vs Muttiah Muralitharan

    Several of the top quicks have similar longevity in years. Not in amount bowled (and wickets) though. Mcgrath is closest, but he's still a long way off. It's not just a question of being fit to bowl this much. It's doing a lot of donkey overs to set bats at bad times for bowling. If Murali was...
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    Imran Khan vs Muttiah Muralitharan

    SL were outclassed in India and AUS. An ATG quick might have won them a game or 2, but not a substantial amount. SL lose a higher number elsewhere-any quick is a substantial downgrade on a match by match and career basis. He has basically an identical number of wickets in wins to Steyns career...

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