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  1. B

    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Come on. You would not want someone with a record like Sobers with as a specialist. Unless you only look at his peak, or assume he will take on a bigger workload. Like Kallis. If you want to look at Sobers bowling spin specifically, he takes a bit more than 1 WPM at an average in the upper 30s...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/sachin-tendulkar-vs-jacques-kallis.89609/ I think a majority of people put Sachin in an AT team, and just about nobody puts Kallis in.
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Do you think RSAs 6th best bat is better than all the bowlers getting left out, like Burger, Ngidi, and Harmer?
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Is this why you switched your vote to Akram?:ph34r: You are right that a lot of people consider the gap in bowling to be pretty significant. This pole is not evidence of it though. He's essentially competing with Akram for a single spot. I can't remember anyone voting for both. Some people...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    How many teams in history would give a specialist with Sobers SR, WPM, and average get a long run in? Of specialists, only a few spinners have worse SRs ever. They bowled a lot more. You are adding in the stats of Imran the bat into the Logie comparison. Since we are discussing secondary...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Slow era, but Sobers' SR wasn't par at all. He had a teamate in Wes Hall who struck at 54. Some specialists struck nearly as slowly as him, but they were spinners with massive bowling loads. I don't find his SR problematic FTR in his role. Just want a specialist striking faster. Imran scoring...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Other than Miller, are any of these players actually specialist level over the course of their careers? Miller is well below than Kallis in primary anyway, and played 1/3 of the games with a bunch of injury concerns.q Sobers is a fair bit closer to specialist than Kallis in role, but a 34...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Through whatever combination of capacity and decision, he dropped from fast to FM in the early 2000s and down to MF around the end of the 2000s. He was the kind of bowler whose quality is pretty tied to his pace, so his quality definitely dropped. You don't seem to have an issue with his...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    You contradict yourself. Almost every bowler has their record boosted by playing some shite teams. We don't pay much attention unless they played an unusual amount of games against minnows. In recent conversations between us, I can understand when you criticise Murali in relation to Imran for...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    If you think his impact was equal to the 90s, the way you criticise his impact is clearly problematic. Impact Pretty much every bowler bruises weak bats. It is not a worthwhile criticism to raise for bowlers unless they have done it at an unusually high rate. He did it less than the vast...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Do you think his impact as bowler was higher in the 90s (when there were other good options), or after his peak (when the other options were atrocious)? I'm excluding the 2010s, which is roughly when he became a part time holding bowler. Minnows is knit picking. It's a small propotion of his...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Impact is a bit of a dodgy way of measuring quality. Very dependent on the rest of the team. But you are criticising impact more than quality, so I'm addressing it. I reckon Kallis as a bowler had a bigger impact after RSA lost Donald and the ARs, despite bowling less and worse. Not as much need...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    In terms of their performances in absolute qisolation, I think that the strongest in secondary had more impact. Overall career needs to be brought into it, because it's clear he would have had an increased impact on a per game basis if this was not a factor. But if we magic this factor away, we...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Maybe. His WPM is not particularly strong evidence of this though, given his overall workload, the fact that he always played in teams with 5-7 viable bowlers, and the fact that he brought value by changing the composition of the side.
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    If you position is that his secondary had significant value and that other great ARs added more significant levels of value, wouldn't it be better to avoid comments like this the below?
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    The drop in effectiveness that came from losing his bowling was deemed by the selectors to be significant enough to justify playing only 5 specialist quality bats when he was injured. Why were the selectors considering his value as a bowler to be significant when you don't? Another way to put...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    Streak and Murali share as much commonality in role, and a smaller gap in quality. When Kallis was out injured, his replacement was either a bowler or a bits and pieces player. He was clearly an integral part of the attack. The fact that doing without his batting left a massive hole and they...
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    Jacques Kallis vs Jack Hobbs

    He was similar to these guys to in the same way Murali was similar to Streak. Quality, bowling position, workloads, and role in the team were all different. The main thing they have in common is being primarily bats who typically didn't carry a full load. And the former isn't particularly...
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    Every time Kyear and Subs go on anti Imran and Kallis crusades I end up rating them higher. They post stuff that could be accepted as minor criticisms at a cursory glance, but the criticisms get obliterated by other posters, amd extra strengths get revealed in the process.
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    Kallis Vs Ambrose

    When Kallis played, the 6 best bats played. When he didn't, the 5 best bats played. That is an extra specialist bat. So you can recognize that Kallis added value to the batting unit by bowling, yes?

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