Better combo : Sobers & Marshall vs Sachin & Hadlee

[Johan]

ATG spinners and four worldclass bowling pairs in the 90s.

I think I've discussed his output issues against Murali (when he got good), Mcg, SA and Pak duo enough tbh

 

[kyear2]

Apparently quite a few people disagree

Quite a few people voted for and support Trump.

 

[kyear2]

India were quite on the weaker side of things and he did averaged 111 here

Was this batting or bowling though.

Not to add that it's seem by some, pretty sure including you, to be a missing check mark for guys like Chappell and Barry.

There are many who still consider the spinners of that era superior to the current crop.

 

[subshakerz]

Batting position I covered, but to repeat, he also had success at 3 and especially 4, not to add a little dabbling at opening.

He didn't drop down because he was hiding, it's because he was also bowling the most overs for the team as well.

Sachin had home pitches that were also flat and played through the flat pitch era.

India may have struggled as a batting unit, but had an above test standard spin attack.

And he failed vs NZ, so no help to him there.

Not to mention how he cares vs the best teams in the world in the ROW tests.

Garry more than proved himself vs the best. Teams and bowlers.

Sachin has an 18 year prime from 93 to 2011 of 157 tests averaging 60 overall and over 45 in every country he played in. That sort of statistical consistency is crazy.

On that alone he should be ahead of every top tier bat.

 

[kyear2]

People are disproportionately focussed on minnows, when hardly anyone plays more than a few games against them. It's 3.5% of Sachins games for Bangers. 40% of Sobers games were against the poor sides from his era. The weren't Bangers weak, but the cumularive impact on quality of playing that many is going to be much greater.

Who were the great attacks in the 2000's?

 

[kyear2]

That Hadlee played longer and you brought a silly point.

And played the same amount of games.

So one had a much more concentrated work load that would diminish longevity, especially for an express fast bowler.

 

[kyear2]

er, the 90s England and Pre Murali Sri Lanka sides were weak as well, doesn't mean we can discard those performances imo

Exactly.

 

[kyear2]

Which is Great and all, but I think Sachin just faced more challenges with a greater variety of top attacks.

Miller, Lindwall, Trueman, Davidson, Benaud, Lock, Lillee, Statham, Underwood, Snow, Laker, the Indian quartet, the Pakistani pacer I'm blanking on etc etc.

Dude.

 

[capt_Luffy]

And played the same amount of games.

So one had a much more concentrated work load that would diminish longevity, especially for an express fast bowler.

Yeah so Hadlee played longer. And also concentrated work doesn't works given how many matches Hadlee played in County.

 

[kyear2]

Sachin in SA + Aus

2970 @ 50.3, 45 RPI

Sobers in England + Australia

2747 @ 50.8, 48.1 RPI

Oh wow

And even his good performances vs Australia in the early 2000's weren't exactly against McWarne either.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Miller, Lindwall, Trueman, Davidson, Benaud, Lock, Lillee, Statham, Underwood, Snow, Laker, the Indian quartet, the Pakistani pacer I'm blanking on etc etc.

Dude.

I will be honest, you surely aren't saying it's as big as Tendulkar's roster, are you??

 

[Johan]

Also, I think Sobers ROW runs should count

 

[kyear2]

Sachin in SA + Aus

2970 @ 50.3, 45 RPI

Sobers in England + Australia

2747 @ 50.8, 48.1 RPI

So basically then as I said, it's primarily the difference in batting position and even then, Sobers proved himself up and down the order.

 

[kyear2]

You should support that since you don't rate Bradman and it helps to downgrade him.

I do rate Bradman as the best. I don't think he was that far above Hobbs as people believe. And as was the consensus when they played.

Grace, Hobbs and Bradman were seen as equals, even after Bradman retired.

And I don't think that Viv, Sachin, Sobers etc are that far behind Hobbs.

That's different to what's being presented of late.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah so Hadlee played longer. And also concentrated work doesn't works given how many matches Hadlee played in County.

And Marshall didn't.

 

[kyear2]

Also, I think Sobers ROW runs should count

For me, just like the WSC stats, they do. And he was magnificent in the first series of matches, with bat, ball and in the field.

 

[kyear2]

I will be honest, you surely aren't saying it's as big as Tendulkar's roster, are you??

I'm saying it's damn good enough.

The reason Sachin is rated higher among equals is the batting position, Viv because of his ridiculous dominance and ATG's that were included in said dominance.

That's it.

 

[Jumno]

This is a tough call.

I'd go for Sachin and Hadlee, only just.

 

[Johan]

Overall, Sobers kill Sachin harder as a player than Hadlee beats Marshall.

on average, Hadlee outputs 6.4 more runs than Marshall, while Sobers is about equal to Sachin in batting and has two different levels of bowling output.

 

[Coronis]

Quite a few people voted for and support Trump.

So you’re equating saying there’s a gap between Tendulkar and Sobers to the fact that people voted for someone?