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Kallis Vs Wasim

Kallis Vs Wasim

  • Total voters
    33
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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subshakerz said:
Dravid's high rating in his peak is precisely my point they won't acknowledge.

Well you'll agree that pretending Kallis is a tier above Dravid is simply wrong.
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In the 01-06 period, Dravid was seen as the best batsman after ponting and Lara. Kallis was just as good if not better statistically so he probably got underrated, but that period was when dravid played a succession of memorable innings in some big Indian wins so he stuck in the memory more than Kallis for people.

Kallis ended his career with a much more consistent 07-13 period than dravid and that's when he began to get more plaudits.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
I dunno, maybe. I'd pick ponting over any of these guys for sure every time but it's not a big enough difference. He had his own flaws that held him back from separating into another tier.
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Yeah I don't mind saying that Ponting is not in the Lara/Ponting tier but he sure as heck is leading the others in the next tier.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
subshakerz said:
Kallisball? Really? I am talking peer/pundit rating, not ranking or some forum trend. Why did they ignore Kallis the bat?


Difference is Akram was and is rated the best of his time by many if not most. Kallis isn't.


Yeah but if there is a general impression it is usually based on some reality.
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Except for the ICC, CW, the commentators, the media I read, everyone I met at the time, a bunch of players, myself, and his actual record...I don't know anyone who recognized Kallis as the best form bat at stages. OFC, it's not universal. It almost never is. I didn't know that anyone rated peak Wasim as top 3 in the world at the time until years later, cos the media I got focussed on other bowlers.

Kallis is rated the best player of all time by a bunch of people. Best after Bradman by very many. I don't use opinions I consider junk to justify his quality. If you think Akram is the 6th best of his time, why would bad opinions matter to you?

There's some basis for these opinions in reality. But there is also very much a style over substance thing at play. Look at that 'pick your perfect batsman' thing in the ATG thread. Nobody was picking Bradman, just bats were easy on the eyes/exciting.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Bolo. said:
Kallis is rated the best player of all time by a bunch of people. Best after Bradman by very many. I don't use opinions I consider junk to justify his quality. If you think Akram is the 6th best of his time, why would bad opinions matter to you?
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Yeah I've heard several of Kallis' peers rate him as the greatest all round cricketer ever. So this whole peer opinion thing isn't the own @subshakerz thinks it is.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
This is your problem, you know. Totally avoiding my point on ATG Lara series.
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I'm not. That's a fair point and batting more in the 90s is a fair point. But you can see others choosing the Kallis advantages I mentioned. As for pure stats, it is then touch and go.

Hence why we need other differentiators.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
Yeah I've heard several of Kallis' peers rate him as the greatest all round cricketer ever. So this whole peer opinion thing isn't the own @subshakerz thinks it is.
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Oh Kallis the AR is a separate discussion. I will admit his peer rating there is high beginning towards his retirement and onwards, mainly because he was the only standout AR of the era unlike the big four in the 80s.

It is Kallis the bat that is the issue since our discussion was on primary disciplines and somehow he was being compared to Wasim.

Our board rates Kallis the bat much higher than Kallis the AR tho unusually.
 
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ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
subshakerz said:
Wasim was considered the best pacer of his time along with Ambrose. Kallis was never that good with the bat.
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Kallis was ranked #1 batsman as per ICC ratings with peak rating of 935. Akram was never ranked #1 bowler and had peak rating of 830. That's a difference of more than 100.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
You disappoint me. We've discussed this before. Peer rating isn't gospel but one of several indicators and we can contextualise it if it's affecting the underrating or overrating of someone.

Its a totally different case between Kallis and Imran.
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I've never said it's gospel. I'm saying you can't choose when to acknowledge it and when not to.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Dravid's high rating in his peak is precisely my point they won't acknowledge.

Well you'll agree that pretending Kallis is a tier above Dravid is simply wrong.
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Dravid is a clear ATG in line with Ponting and a tier ehead of Kallis as a bat
 
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