Kallis Vs Wasim

[kyear2]

Sunny is equal to Viv, and I agree that takes some liberties and some ways I rate players others don't. Dravid a tier below Ponting is what I find laughable. I don't hate Ponting, just doing my part to somewhat balance the over fawning by certain fans on things like "dominance".

My only point is that you see Dravid in the same tier as Pointing I don't.

I see Viv as a tier above Sunny, you don't. Everyone's perspectives are different.

 

[capt_Luffy]

My only point is that you see Dravid in the same tier as Pointing I don't.

I see Viv as a tier above Sunny, you don't. Everyone's perspectives are different.

Yeah, and like you strongly disagree with some of mine ratings, I do with your these ones.

 

[subshakerz]

Convenient.

Peer rating leads to Lillee, Tendulkar > Imran.

Sigh. I never said peer rating is gospel. It is one indicator along with record, playing style, etc.

 

[ankitj]

Sigh. I never said peer rating is gospel. It is one indicator along with record, playing style, etc.

Ok so when you said never reached #1, you meant not statistical/objective measure but peer rating. Will you bring that up and say Imran never reached #1? I think that would be ridiculous.

 

[subshakerz]

In the 01-06 period, Dravid was seen as the best batsman after ponting and Lara. Kallis was just as good if not better statistically so he probably got underrated, but that period was when dravid played a succession of memorable innings in some big Indian wins so he stuck in the memory more than Kallis for people.

Kallis ended his career with a much more consistent 07-13 period than dravid and that's when he began to get more plaudits.

The thing is, if Kallis is comparable to Dravid, then on primary discipline I don't see him on Wasim's level.

 

[kyear2]

I dunno, maybe. I'd pick ponting over any of these guys for sure every time but it's not a big enough difference. He had his own flaws that held him back from separating into another tier.

Sachin / Lara were obviously better by a margin Ponting wasn't. So ponting maybe in a sub-tier.

I can agree with this.

 

[subshakerz]

Ok so when you said never reached #1, you meant not statistical/objective measure but peer rating. Will you bring that up and say Imran never reached #1? I think that would be ridiculous.

Imran did reach no.1 in his era as far as ARs is concerned.

As a bowler, Imran was widely seen as no.1 in the world around 82/83 but overall no he wasn't seen that way, but that's one reason I rate him behind Marshall and Hadlee.

 

[kyear2]

The irony

My God what is your problem?

 

[subshakerz]

I can agree with this.

Ponting is closer to Lara/Tendulkar than Dravid/Kallis.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ponting is closer to Lara/Tendulkar than Dravid/Kallis.

Lolllllll

 

[kyear2]

Yeah, and like you strongly disagree with some of mine ratings, I do with your these ones.

Just like raw stats, rounded records and peer ratings, dominance and style test has the enter the argument somewhere. The ability to flip a match in a session,.out the bowlers on the back foot is a thing.

 

[subshakerz]

Lolllllll

It's the most unfunny normal opinion in the world.

 

[smash84]

My God what is your problem?

Your inconsistencies

 

[subshakerz]

Just like raw stats, rounded records and peer ratings, dominance and style test has the enter the argument somewhere. The ability to flip a match in a session,.out the bowlers on the back foot is a thing.

Thank you. You're learning so well.

 

[kyear2]

Sigh. I never said peer rating is gospel. It is one indicator along with record, playing style, etc.

And you're entirely missing the point.

You use it as a cudgel to bludgeon Kallis, but totally omit it when it comes to Imran where they were literally in the same position during their career.

You will find excuses for it for one, but refuse to listen to reasons for the other.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Just like raw stats, rounded records and peer ratings, dominance and style test has the enter the argument somewhere. The ability to flip a match in a session,.out the bowlers on the back foot is a thing.

As is scoring consistently and in tougher playing conditions, which are a tad bit more important....

 

[Bolo.]

Oh Kallis the AR is a separate discussion. I will admit his peer rating there is high beginning towards his retirement and onwards, mainly because he was the only standout AR of the era unlike the big four in the 80s.

It is Kallis the bat that is the issue since our discussion was on primary disciplines and somehow he was being compared to Wasim.

Our board rates Kallis the bat much higher than Kallis the AR tho unusually.

If you think Kallis is rated both poorly and highly, why do you accept the poor rating as evidence of something, but not the high one?

 

[capt_Luffy]

It's the most unfunny normal opinion in the world.

The idea that Ponting is closer to Tendulkar than Kallis is the very reason I feel Ponting is massively overrated.

 

[kyear2]

Imran did reach no.1 in his era as far as ARs is concerned.

As a bowler, Imran was widely seen as no.1 in the world around 82/83 but overall no he wasn't seen that way, but that's one reason I rate him behind Marshall and Hadlee.

He was not clearly seen as the no. 1 dominant all rounder of the era, and you know this.

He was clearly seen as third best of the 80's and 4th for overall mid 70's -80's era including Lillee.

So stop using it as some gotcha vs Kallis.

 

[subshakerz]

And you're entirely missing the point.

You use it as a cudgel to bludgeon Kallis, but totally omit it when it comes to Imran where they were literally in the same position during their career.

You will find excuses for it for one, but refuse to listen to reasons for the other.

Exactly how? I rate Imran behind Hadlee and Marshall as a bowler partly because of peer rating.

Imran's peer rating was to be the top of the four ARs of the era and generally he is in the top 10 cricketers ever and many ATG XIs of pundits/peers.

So how am I off base?