• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Kallis Vs Wasim

Kallis Vs Wasim

  • Total voters
    33
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
I preferred Ponting because he scored faster and the runs seemed more impactful for a, ummmm. The team was relevant, the runs mattered. They were becoming one of the two greatest teams ever and he was a major reason why.
He was just dominant and he put bowlers on the back foot.
Click to expand...
Except they don't want to talk about playing style either.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Yes and I am asking who rated Kallis as the best bat then if it was so obvious?
Click to expand...
You asked when he was the best on form. Clearly those years he was far ahead of the others on form. Some people didn’t notice it sadly because he batted in an unattractive way and wasn’t in the big 3 but facts are facts.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Coronis said:
You asked when he was the best on form. Clearly those years he was far ahead of the others on form. Some people didn’t notice it sadly because he batted in an unattractive way and wasn’t in the big 3 but facts are facts.
Click to expand...
I asked when was he rated the best on form. This is the crux of my argument. I haven't been arguing numbers.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Bolo. said:
Search Kallisball on this website. I think it's safe to say that when people rename the sport after a player, they rate him. Not even his best (extended) form. Plenty of people recognized how good his form was in the mid 2000s. You will always have a bunch of people calling a player on top of the ICC rankings the form player. It's what the system was designed for, and (reasonably or not), tons of people trust it. This site has less respect for the rankings system than anywhere else, and they still constantly get brought up.*
Click to expand...
Kallisball? Really? I am talking peer/pundit rating, not ranking or some forum trend. Why did they ignore Kallis the bat?

Bolo. said:
You recognize that Akram was quality despite playing alongside better players. Extend this to other players too. Having to be better than your competition is ridiculous when facing vastly different levels of competition.
Click to expand...
Difference is Akram was and is rated the best of his time by many if not most. Kallis isn't.

Bolo. said:
*And this is all junk anyway, unless perception actually matches reality. Missrating a player does not change their quality, regardless of how many people do it.
Click to expand...
Yeah but if there is a general impression it is usually based on some reality.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
kyear2 said:
Seriously, what do you have against Punter?
Click to expand...
kyear2 said:
No.
Click to expand...
kyear2 said:
Why am I catching strays?
Click to expand...
Exactly this. I hate when people think that Ponting was in a separate tier to Dravid, he wasn't, nope. And it further erks me when they use "having seen him bat" as evidence, as it reminds me of takes which were popular back then like "May being better than Hutton", "Kanhai being better than Sobers", etc.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Kallisball? Really? I am talking peer/pundit rating, not ranking or some forum trend. Why did they ignore Kallis the bat?
Click to expand...
We’ve already listed the reasons but you seem to want to ignore them because you hate Kallis.


subshakerz said:
Difference is Akram was and is rated the best of his time by many if not most. Kallis isn't.
Click to expand...
Again we’ve already said why this is the case, but you won’t listen because you like Wasim and you don’t like Kallis. Probably for the same reasons as the peers/pundits.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
Exactly this. I hate when people think that Ponting was in a separate tier to Dravid, he wasn't, nope. And it further erks me when they use "having seen him bat" as evidence, as it reminds me of takes which were popular back then like "May being better than Hutton", "Kanhai being better than Sobers", etc.
Click to expand...
Yeah God forbid forming opinions by actually watching cricketers play.

capt_Luffy said:
That is my problem really. You aren't arguing with numbers, but vibe check, which is so much more subjective.
Click to expand...
It is your problem. Otherwise tell me without referencing rating or playing style why you would rate Lara a tier above Kallis?
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
Yeah God forbid forming opinions by actually watching cricketers play.


It is your problem. Otherwise tell me without referencing rating or playing style why you would rate Lara a tier above Kallis?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's fine to rate not someone higher by watching them not because they scored tough runs but because they "dominated" weak attacks on friendly pitches.....

1999 Australia, 2003 Sri Lanka; a very well rounded record against every opponent everywhere.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
PlayerComparisons said:
Tiers since 1990.

Tier 1 : Tendulkar, Lara

Tier 2: Kallis, Sanga, Ponting, Smith, Waugh, Dravid, (maybe Kohli and ABD)

Tier 3: Younis Khan, Graeme Smith, Williamson, Root, Chanderpaul, Inzamam,
Click to expand...
Smith in the first tier, otherwise agree for now; though will place both ABD and Kohli in the 3rd, especially Kohli for the moment; another great year run and he definitely goes up.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Coronis said:
We’ve already listed the reasons but you seem to want to ignore them because you hate Kallis.
Click to expand...
The reason given only evade the real point that how he played didn't distinguish him as ATG material.

Coronis said:
Again we’ve already said why this is the case, but you won’t listen because you like Wasim and you don’t like Kallis. Probably for the same reasons as the peers/pundits.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of cricketers I don't like but I acknowledge them. Kallis is one who deserves to be a backbencher though compared to real ATGs. His case is 100% retroactive stats driven and has nothing to do with how he played or how others saw him, that's my problem.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
The reason given only evade the real point that how he played didn't distinguish him as ATG material.


There are plenty of cricketers I don't like but I acknowledge them. Kallis is one who deserves to be a backbencher though compared to real ATGs. His case is 100% retroactive stats driven and has nothing to do with how he played or how others saw him, that's my problem.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I found it fascinating how your whole point is Kallis had the higher output, but you didn't like his batting style..... It reminds me of people who say things like, "anybody who has seen both Lillee and McGrath won't rate McGrath higher!!! Oh, you stay driven needs!! "
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
Yeah, it's fine to rate not someone higher by watching them not because they scored tough runs but because they "dominated" weak attacks on friendly pitches.....
Click to expand...
Again, I don't want to get stuck on Ponting but he had his tough innings and series too.

capt_Luffy said:
1999 Australia, 2003 Sri Lanka; a very well rounded record against every opponent everywhere.
Click to expand...
How does Kallis' overall batting record compare poorly with Lara's to justify being a tier below?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top