Joe Root vs Mark Waugh

[capt_Luffy]

Nice. Lyon still below Benaud?

Just below for me. Nathan has the longevity in favour of his and he is better in England; but Benaud's peak and performance in SC and SA still places him ahead in my book.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Yea yea yea these are all piss easy. If you want a real challenge do top 50 Indian pacers.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

New Zealand is kinda tough, especially with the likes of old players who hardly played (Dempster and Donnelly) and current generation who haven't really played enough but still deserves a spot (Conway and Mitchell). Anyways:

1. Kane Williamson
2. Martin Crowe
3. Glenn Turner
4. Ross Taylor
5. Bert Sutcliffe
6. Martin Donnelly
7. Stephen Fleming
8. John Wright
9. Stewei Dempster
10. Andrew Jones
11. Bevan Congdon
12. Nathan Astle
13. Tom Latham
14. Brendon McCullum
15. Mark Richardson
16. Jeremy Conney
17. B J Watling
18. Devon Conway
19. Darryl Mitchell
20. John Fulton Reid
21. John Richard Reid
22. Craig McMillan
23. Chris Cairns
24. Henry Nichols
25. Geoff Howarth
26. Walter Hadlee
27. Giff Vivian
28. Bruce Edgar
29. Scott Styrus
30. Mark Burgess
31. Bryan Young
32. Jacob Oram
33. Tom Lawry
34. Jess Ryder
35. Jess Kerr
36. Tom Blundell
37. Daniel Vettori
38. Mark Greatbatch
39. Graham Dowling
40. Colin de Grandhomme
41. Matthew Sinclair
42. Brian Hastings
43. Arthur Sims
44. Jeet Raval
45. Martin Guptill
46. Ken Ratherford
47. Jeff Crowe
48. Ian Smith
49. Rachin Ravindra
50. Richard Hadlee
51. Adam Parore

Interesting and great effort, although I disagree with a few.
I assume Jess Kerr (the seam bowling older SISTER of Amelia Kerr) at 35 is a typo, and I've never heard of Arthur Sims.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Interesting and great effort, although I disagree with a few.
I assume Jess Kerr (the seam bowling older SISTER of Amelia Kerr) at 35 is a typo, and I've never heard of Arthur Sims.

My bad, it would be Jack Kerr. Will edit it.

 

[Coronis]

The pacers and spinners are ranked separately.

The Australian pacers:
1. Glenn McGrath
2. Dennis Lillee
3. Ray Lindwall
4. Allan Davidson
5. Pat Cummins
6. Keith Miller
7. Fred Spofforth
8. Jason Gillespie
9. Bill Johnston
10. Charlie Turner
11. Ted McDonald
12. Josh Hazlewood
13. Mitchell Starc
14. Jeff Thomson
15. Craig McDermott
16. Garth McKenzie
17. Mitchell Johnson
18. Ryan Harris
19. Ernie Toshack
20. Bruce Reid
21. Rodney Hogg
22. Jack Gregory
23. Brett Lee
24. Merv Hughes
25. John J Ferris
26. Max Walker
27. Ernie Jones
28. Sammy Woods
29. Geoff Lawson
30. Terry Alderman
31. Tibby Cotter
32. Neil Hawke
33. Stuart Clarke
34. Len Pascoe
35. Ernie McCormick


And the Aussie spinners:

1. Shane Warne
2. Bill O'Reilly
3. Clarrie Grimmett
4. Hugh Trumble
5. Richie Benaud
6. Nathan Lyon
7. Bert Ironmonger
8. Stuart MacGill
9. Monty Noble
10. Arthur Mailey
11. Ashley Mallet
12. Jack Iverson
13. Joey Palmer
14. Chuck Fleetwood-Smith
15. Jack Saunders
16. Bruce Yardley
17. Colin McCool
18. John Gleeson
19. Jim Higgs
20. Tim May

How the hell is Ted McDonald so high? He played 11 tests in 1921 and was outperformed by both Gregory and Mailey lol

 

[capt_Luffy]

How the hell is Ted McDonald so high? He played 11 tests in 1921 and was outperformed by both Gregory and Mailey lol

I based them how I rate them based on skill set; not solely on Test performance. McDonald was widely regarded as the best pacer mid Wars and has excellent record in First Class cricket.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yea yea yea these are all piss easy. If you want a real challenge do top 50 Indian pacers.

This was a **** show.... The level of Indian pacers in the past has been ****ing atrocious for the most part..... ****ing Vijay Hazare squeezed in!! Anyways, I only ranked those pacers who played atleast one Test, with most of the emphasis on Test, but also some in the domestic level. Haven't included Amir Elahi as he played mostly for Pakistan.
Top 51 Indian Pacers:

1. Jasprit Bumrah
2. Kapil Dev
3. Mohammad Shami
4. Zaheer Khan
5. Javagal Srinath
6. Amar Singh
7. Mohammad Nissar
8. Ishant Sharma
9. Umesh Yadav
10. Karsan Ghavri
11. Mohammad Siraj
12. Bhuvnehswar Kumar
13. Venkatesh Prasad
14. Madan Lal
15. Roger Binny
16. Chetan Sharma
17. Manoj Prabhakar
18. Shardul Thakur
19. S Sreesanth
20. Munaf Patel
21. Irfan Pathan
22. Ashish Nehra
23. Ajit Agarkar
24. Shute Banerjee
25. Dattu Phadkar
26. Ramakant Desai
27. Vasant Ranjane
28. Jahangir Khan
29. Lala Amarnath
30. R P Singh
31. Hardik Pandya
32. Lakshmipati Balaji
33. Praveen Kumar
34. Jaydev Unadkat
35. Mukesh Kumar
36. Abbey Kuruvilla
37. Varun Aron
38. Subrata Guha
39. Abid Ali
40. Gulabrai Ramchand
41. Akash Deep
42. Vijay Hazare
43. Subroto Banerjee
44. Balwinder Singh Sandhoo
45. Navdeep Saini
46. Debasish Mohanty
47. T Natrajan
48. Pankaj Singh
49. Vinay Kumar
50. Atul Wassan
51. Vikram Raj Vir Singh

 

[Archer6K]

Akash Deep at 40 after one test is hilarious

 

[capt_Luffy]

Akash Deep at 40 after one test is hilarious

One good full series and he would crack Top 30..... There are a bunch of them who played only 1-2 Test (Saini, Natrajan, Vinay Kumar, Subroto Banerjee, etc)

 

[cnerd123]

This was a **** show.... The level of Indian pacers in the past has been ****ing atrocious for the most part..... ****ing Vijay Hazare squeezed in!! Anyways, I only ranked those pacers who played atleast one Test, with most of the emphasis on Test, but also some in the domestic level. Haven't included Amir Elahi as he played mostly for Pakistan.
Top 51 Indian Pacers:

1. Jasprit Bumrah
2. Kapil Dev
3. Mohammad Shami
4. Zaheer Khan
5. Javagal Srinath
6. Amar Singh
7. Mohammad Nissar
8. Ishant Sharma
9. Umesh Yadav
10. Karsan Ghavri
11. Mohammad Siraj
12. Bhuvnehswar Kumar
13. Venkatesh Prasad
14. Madan Lal
15. Roger Binny
16. Chetan Sharma
17. Manoj Prabhakar
18. Shardul Thakur
19. S Sreesanth
20. Munaf Patel
21. Irfan Pathan
22. Ashish Nehra
23. Ajit Agarkar
24. Shute Banerjee
25. Dattu Phadkar
26. Ramakant Desai
27. Vasant Ranjane
28. Lala Amarnath
29. Jahangir Khan
30. Hardik Pandya
31. Jaydev Unadkat
32. Mukesh Kumar
33. Abbey Kuruvilla
34. Varun Aron
35. Lakshmipati Balaji
36. Praveen Kumar
37. Subrata Guha
38. Abid Ali
39. Gulabrai Ramchand
40. Akash Deep
41. R P Singh
42. Vijay Hazare
43. Subroto Banerjee
44. Balwinder Singh Sandhoo
45. Navdeep Saini
46. Debasish Mohanty
47. T Natrajan
48. Pankaj Singh
49. Vinay Kumar
50. Atul Wassan
51. Vikram Raj Vir Singh

I would rate Balaji, Praveen and RP much higher. But I do admire this effort, outstanding.

 

[cnerd123]

I now want a @capt_Luffy top 50 thread

 

[capt_Luffy]

I would rate Balaji, Praveen and RP much higher. But I do admire this effort, outstanding.

Never was a fan of RP, always felt he was never of Test level. Then again, most here aren't..... Praveen and Balaji could had been a few spots higher though. But it was such a huge pain of ass MANNNN

(Also Fun Fact (not really): My father actually played against RP once in a Club game. Had a half century on that one).

 

[Sunil1z]

Never was a fan of RP, always felt he was never of Test level. Then again, most here aren't..... Praveen and Balaji could had been a few spots higher though. But it was such a huge pain of ass MANNNN

(Also Fun Fact (not really): My father actually played against RP once in a Club game. Had a half century on that one).

How can you say this considering his performance in 2007 ( ENGLAND and AUS tour )

 

[capt_Luffy]

How can you say this considering his performance in 2007 ( ENGLAND and AUS tour )

Hmmm..... Yeah he would be higher. So would be Balaji and Praveen Kumar (though not by much). But yeah, for the part I watched him ball, he was utter ****.

 

[capt_Luffy]

In this thread the discussion has moved from Virat vs KW, to Kane in away matches, to England AT teams, to an AT England vs South Africa match, to how should we rate players across generations, to me just blabbering non sensical lists of 51 players...... In short, everything BUT Mark Waugh vs Joe Root has been discussed here; and I am all for it!

 

[Coronis]

This was a **** show.... The level of Indian pacers in the past has been ****ing atrocious for the most part..... ****ing Vijay Hazare squeezed in!! Anyways, I only ranked those pacers who played atleast one Test, with most of the emphasis on Test, but also some in the domestic level. Haven't included Amir Elahi as he played mostly for Pakistan.
Top 51 Indian Pacers:

1. Jasprit Bumrah
2. Kapil Dev
3. Mohammad Shami
4. Zaheer Khan
5. Javagal Srinath
6. Amar Singh
7. Mohammad Nissar
8. Ishant Sharma
9. Umesh Yadav
10. Karsan Ghavri
11. Mohammad Siraj
12. Bhuvnehswar Kumar
13. Venkatesh Prasad
14. Madan Lal
15. Roger Binny
16. Chetan Sharma
17. Manoj Prabhakar
18. Shardul Thakur
19. S Sreesanth
20. Munaf Patel
21. Irfan Pathan
22. Ashish Nehra
23. Ajit Agarkar
24. Shute Banerjee
25. Dattu Phadkar
26. Ramakant Desai
27. Vasant Ranjane
28. Jahangir Khan
29. Lala Amarnath
30. R P Singh
31. Hardik Pandya
32. Lakshmipati Balaji
33. Praveen Kumar
34. Jaydev Unadkat
35. Mukesh Kumar
36. Abbey Kuruvilla
37. Varun Aron
38. Subrata Guha
39. Abid Ali
40. Gulabrai Ramchand
41. Akash Deep
42. Vijay Hazare
43. Subroto Banerjee
44. Balwinder Singh Sandhoo
45. Navdeep Saini
46. Debasish Mohanty
47. T Natrajan
48. Pankaj Singh
49. Vinay Kumar
50. Atul Wassan
51. Vikram Raj Vir Singh

#1 in Squash and Top 30 pace bowler - across two countries. Bloke sure was something.

In this thread the discussion has moved from Virat vs KW, to Kane in away matches, to England AT teams, to an AT England vs South Africa match, to how should we rate players across generations, to me just blabbering non sensical lists of 51 players...... In short, everything BUT Mark Waugh vs Joe Root has been discussed here; and I am all for it!

Very few threads stay on topic - its a wonderful and horrible part of CC and this sub.

Still wanna know why you have Turner ahead of Taylor!

 

[capt_Luffy]

Very few threads stay on topic - its a wonderful and horrible part of CC and this sub.

Still wanna know why you have Turner ahead of Taylor!

Turner was arguably New Zealand's first leading batsman, an opener and scored many runs in the County circuit as well. In his time, he was generally rated better than Taylor in his also. Taylor also failed big time in India, South Africa and UAE, Turner has more well rounded record, averaging 35+ against every team he played
And for the thread topic, it was friggin Mark Waugh vs Joe Root...... It was destined to be a no convo.

 

[Coronis]

Turner was arguably New Zealand's first leading batsman, an opener and scored many runs in the County circuit as well. In his time, he was generally rated better than Taylor in his also. Taylor also failed big time in India, South Africa and UAE, Turner has more well rounded record, averaging 35+ against every team he played
And for the thread topic, it was friggin Mark Waugh vs Joe Root...... It was destined to be a no convo.

Nah.

Turner’s away record is pretty awful, extremely inflated by the 72 series in the Windies, with honestly two of the worst bowling teams ever. Hell, both teams only had a single bowler who averaged under 30 in their careers and Gibbs only played 2 matches and was in horrible form. 14 tons were scored by both teams, and every match was a draw. Taylor definitely had his failings, but averaged 40+ against both Australia and England home and away, both of whom have had consistently good bowling attacks throughout his career.

Just my personal opinion ofc.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Nah.

Turner’s away record is pretty awful, extremely inflated by the 72 series in the Windies, with honestly two of the worst bowling teams ever. Hell, both teams only had a single bowler who averaged under 30 in their careers and Gibbs only played 2 matches and was in horrible form. 14 tons were scored by both teams, and every match was a draw. Taylor definitely had his failings, but averaged 40+ against both Australia and England home and away, both of whom have had consistently good bowling attacks throughout his career.

Just my personal opinion ofc.

Turner didn't played that many games away except that series for me to personally delve into them too much. I was meaning his overall home and away record against every team is good.

 

[Coronis]

Turner didn't played that many games away except that series for me to personally delve into them too much. I was meaning his overall home and away record against every team is good.

Is it? I know we’re getting into checklist territory here but he averages sub 40 against everyone bar Australia and Windies (who I’ve already covered).

Taylor on the other hand despite playing more teams averages sub 40 against fewer nations (3 compared to 4).

I think Taylor takes it due to longevity and a better rounded record but hey, agree to disagree.