How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[subshakerz]

They didn’t Bazball at all in 4th Test . Their missed opportunity was entire Day 3 . Allowing IND to come close to their 1st innings score and collapsing from 110-3 to 145 all out in 2nd innings.

Yes, I agree. They let themselves down in this past test. But India bowled, particularly Kuldeep at a key moment, brilliantly frankly too.

 

[Coronis]

Most amusing thread to read recently, good job today guys.

Okay, so as the first part is geared towards me, I would just say it's definitely a position (i.e., I would be somewhat surprised otherwise) that the game has changed enough over the last 4 decades that WI from back then will face trouble teleported directly to present day. The game didn't changed overnight at the beginning of the 20th century, I described the methodology previously as a more balanced version, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.....

Of course not, the game changed overnight in the 70’s.

 

[CricAddict]

I mean, bazball is the whole reason England have been in this current series, isnt it? If mccullum isn't at the helm Pope doesn't make that 190, Bashir doesn't get picked to give them a chance in the 4th test and I doubt Hartley gets in the squad ahead of Dawson if a more typical regime is at the helm.

Root gets a double century or two playing normally. Also, as I've said earlier, Dawson would have done better than Hartley/Bashir. So, they still would have pinched a test.

 

[subshakerz]

Root gets a double century or two playing normally. Also, as I've said earlier, Dawson would have done better than Hartley/Bashir. So, they still would have pinched a test.

If England win the last test, then they would have done better than they would be normally expected for me. Two test wins in India would be very good.

 

[capt_Luffy]

If England win the last test, then they would have done better than they would be normally expected for me. Two test wins in India would be very good.

They had already done better than what could had been expected from this team with winning the first Test and giving a good fight in the 4th....

 

[Nintendo]

Root gets a double century or two playing normally. Also, as I've said earlier, Dawson would have done better than Hartley/Bashir. So, they still would have pinched a test.

Bazball isn't the reason root is slogging, and most of his dismissals haven't even been from that. He's just struggled with bumrah. Afaik even the slog in the 2nd dig of the second test was because he was carrying an injured finger or whatever at the time and physicly could not bat normally.

 

[Slifer]

Not sure. What if England win the last test, would they have performed better than Australia last year?

Australia have seemed weak at home recently.

Yes. To win two tests in India is unreal so yes I might give England the edge in India. Overall, still it's India>Australia> England > Nz then the rest for me. The rest Pakistan>Sri Lanka>/= RSA>>WI>/= Bang> Zim.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes. To win two tests in India is unreal so yes I might give England the edge in India. Overall, still it's India>Australia> England > Nz then the rest for me. The rest Pakistan>Sri Lanka>/= RSA>>WI>/= Bang> Zim.

South African bowling is too good to be behind Sri Lanka.

 

[Slifer]

South African bowling is too good to be behind Sri Lanka.

Yes, however, South Africa's batting is atrocious.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes, however, South Africa's batting is atrocious.

Not like Sri Lankan is too ahead..... SA still has Bavuma, Markram, Van Der Dussen (if he plays), etc.

 

[Slifer]

Not like Sri Lankan is too ahead..... SA still has Bavuma, Markram, Van Der Dussen (if he plays), etc.

Angelo matthews is better than all of them.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Angelo matthews is better than all of them.

He is. But again Kagiso Rabada is better than any Sri Lankan bowler.

 

[kyear2]

It would be nice if people stopped being stupid about the WI and AUS sides. Come back to Earth and try using some logic and exercise those neurons inside you, would be a fresh break from most of this junk strawmen being put out.

I was trying to make my way through all the posts before responding to the various points.

And even though I don't agree with @Socerer 01 and that he's lacking a wider perspective, he's at least been respectful.

You have been disrespectful and unnecessarily tribal, and this was by no means the only post.

You sound like one of the many young entitled facebook / YouTube posters that not only don't know or respect the history of the game, but don't know how to interact respectfully with others. CW used to be a haven from such.

 

[kyear2]

I'm sorry as well overall to be frank, I just can't stand Kyear and Subzi's general arguments which feel incredibly dismissive of the performance of this Indian side over the past decade on all sorts of surfaces at home, whether they want to call it 'doctored' or whatever. Everyone's done well at times and played their part and to basically brush it aside because of legacy and the mythologizing of past sides feels antithetical to the premise of the thread.

You are so very disingenuous, my only stance had been it would be an incredibly close series and I have no idea who would win.

That team went over a decade without loosing a test and you believe they would be whitewashed or beaten 3 -0.

I strongly disagree with that premise and well as your tone throughout the thread.

With regards to doctored pitches, how many great teams from the past had to make provision of being home or not. There's a reason the thread was phrased as it was.

With regards to not acknowledging how good this team is? I love Bumrah, I'm impressed by the young players, Kuldeep should have more than 10 tests, Virat may end up a top 20 batsman of all time and it's a really good team. For the past decade they're been a dominant home team and a really good team over all. Do I place them among the top 5 if all time, probably not, but that's only because of the home away fall off, though by no means are they helpless away from the sub Continent.

How is any of that dismissive?

 

[Nintendo]

WI:
Gordon Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Viv Richards
Clive Lloyd (c)
Alvin Kalicharan
Larry Gomes
Jeff Dujon (wk)
Malcolm Marshall
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Joel Garner

Subs:
Richie Richardson
Gus Logie
Roger Harper
Courtney Walsh


Aus:
Matthew Hayden
Justin Langer
Ricky Ponting
Mark Waugh
Steve Waugh (c)
Damien Martyn
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Shane Warne
Jason Gillespie
Brett Lee
Glenn McGrath

Subs:
Michael Slater
Michael Clarke
Stuart MacGill
Stuart Clarke


IND:
Rohit Sharma
Mayank Agarwal
Cheteshwar Pujara
Virat Kohli (c)
Ajinkya Rahane
Rishabh Pant (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Kuldeep Yadav
Mohammad Shami
Jasprit Bumrah


Subs:
Murali Vijay
K L Rahul
Axar Patel
Umesh Yadav

Using these squad's for WI AND AUS, with Sulinz:

@Nintendo

You can use this Team

KL Rahul, Rohit , Pujara , Kohli , Rahane , Pant , Jadeja, Ashwin, Kuldeep, Shami , Bumrah

Reserve squad : Saha , Shreyas Iyer , Axar Patel , Umesh Yadav , Mayank Agarwal, Gill

Squad for india

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Bazball isn't the reason root is slogging, and most of his dismissals haven't even been from that. He's just struggled with bumrah. Afaik even the slog in the 2nd dig of the second test was because he was carrying an injured finger or whatever at the time and physicly could not bat normally.

Just because he isn’t always slogging doesn’t mean it hasn’t had a negative impact on his batting. You’re not going to be maximizing your runs if you’re trying to score at a strike rate of 75 all the time. Over his last 18 tests, he averages like 40 with a strike rate of 70 and averaged 25 on a tour to Pakistan lmao so he’s wasting his peak.

It’s definitely improved guys like Crawley, Duckett, and Pope but made Root a lot worse.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Over a 4-5 match series, top tier pacers like Mcgrath and Marshall would have an impact at some stage even on dead pitches. It's what makes those quick bowlers special. Very hard to see those teams not winning a single game at the bare minimum. It'd be such an anomaly.

That should be easy enough to check. Have they played any series where they didn’t win a single test (in which they played)?

 

[_00_deathscar]

It is because:

A. that's precisely the scoreline India achieved vs successive Aus teams with inferior batting and bowling to the WI.

B. WI lost no more than one away test per series between 1976 and 1991. Lost no away series between 1978 and 1997.

That’s as much to do with injuries/form as anything else though.
For the purpose of this exercise presumably we’re accepting that everyone is in form and injury free?

 

[Nintendo]

1st test, In India, VS AUS:

IND XI:
1.Rohit
2.KL
3.PUjara
4.Kohli
5.Rahane
6.Pant
7.Jadeja
8.Ashwin
9.Kuldeep
10.Bumrah
11.Shami

AUS XI:
1.Hayden
2.Langer
3.Ponting
4.Mark Waugh
5.Steve Waugh
6.Clarke
7.Gilchrist
8.Warne
9.Mcgill
10Gillepsie
11.Mcgrath

Australia win the toss and bat, Spinning Pitch, Bit of cloud forcasted for day 4 and 5, but otherwise perfect conditions.

Day 1 Lunch: 126/3 Hayden 53 Jadeja 1-25

Day 1 Tea: 225/4 M Waugh 77* Ashwin 2-54

Australia 294 All out: M Waugh 90(119) 14 x 4, Hayden 53(115) 7 x 4, Ashwin 3-81 Bumrah 2-41

End of day 1: India 23/0

Lunch day 2: India 117/6 Pujara 38* Warne 3-44

India 166 All out: Pujara 60(143) 5 x 4, Mcgill 4-23, Warne 4-62

Tea day 2: 78/3 Langer 35 Hayden 32 Yadav 2-13

End of day 2: 236/4 M wAUGH 78 S Waugh 64* Yadav 2-79 Yadav 1-29

Lunch day 3: 327/8 Jadeja 4-66

Tea day 3: Australia 386 all out: Clarke 85(185) 12 x 4 1 x 6, M Waugh 78(97) 15 x 4, S Waugh 70 (97) 10 x 4, Jadeja 4-71, Shami 3-86

India 227 All out, Australia win by 287 runs: Jadeja 82(109) 15 x 4, Pant 42(53) 6 x 4 1 x 6, Warne 6-71

Mark Waugh MOTM

Other notable performances: Warne 10 fer
Jadeja 5 wickets and 86 runs.

Scorecards:

https://gyazo.com/9109104eda829d98b3e60f6d3b323472

 

[Nintendo]

FYI, I'm going to do 5 tests with both of these.