How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[Sunil1z]

Waiting for a batsman's mistake is not the ideal blue print of winning games

All I'm saying is that when Larry Gomez is your front line spinner, it'll always be an uphill battle to beat, what is statistically at least, the greatest home team of all time and their strength is spin. Cricket is a condition based game so no matter how good you are, if the conditions are against you, it'll cripple you. I mean would a bowling attack of Warne, Murali, O'Reilly, Ashwin and Ben Stokes would win you a game against a strong home Australian side at the old Perth ground? I'd say no and that is the spinning equivalent of WI attack

Reverse swing is the only way for sustainable success and someone from that WI attack would have to generate it

Agree with what you say . I believe WI of 80s would find a way to generate reverse swing .
Walsh has the best bowling average by a visiting pacer in IND . So they will definitely find a way to compete .

 

[capt_Luffy]

IPL will mean McGrath/Gillespie are more not less of a threat.

I have yet to see any evidence provided by the other side btw that Kohli et al are more equipped against Warne/MacGill than their opponents.

And you haven't provided anything remotely suggesting that especially that Australian batting, half of which crumbled on those flat pitches, have anything on Ashwin and Jadeja..... Kumble was able to draw us a series in Australia for the matter. And if I am not mistaken, after the years of quartet, when WI domination really began ('74 series was 3-2, '78 India walked away with albeit a weaker WSC affected team, and in the tour to WI, Bedi and Chandrashekhar were among the 3 best bowlers alongside Andy Roberts); Narendra Hirwani won us a Test against them on a turning track.

 

[Sunil1z]

oh my ****ing god how do you keep ignoring that Bumrah and co have Ashwin and Jadeja for support as spinners and that West Indies team have no one barring Roger Harper who they may not even play because they were too alpha to????

at this point i cant argue with you since you just keep going in circles and random tangents and shifting goalposts

And due to Ashwin and Jadeja we might win the series 2-1 . But we aren’t demolishing them 3-0 or 3-1 . No one is demolishing a side with Marshall/ Garner / Holding and Viv Richards anywhere .

 

[capt_Luffy]

Agree with what you say . I believe WI of 80s would find a way to generate reverse swing .
Walsh has the best bowling average by a visiting pacer in IND . So they will definitely find a way to compete .

I am not saying that WI won't be competing, but going with 4 pacers isn't the way to go.... They will need Roger Harper in place of Michael Holding or Joel Garner.

 

[trundler]

They are also forgetting the standard of attacks and opposition that India faced in this time.

This is bottom of the barrel circular reasoning. That 2000s Australia side wasn't as good because it never faced an attack as good as the West Indian quartet. And those West Indian batsmen weren't as good as the 3 Ws because they never batted on uncovered pitches against a spinner as good as Laker.

 

[Xix2565]

The Indian side from 1978 to 1989 (12 years, basically the length of Marshall's career) played 58 Tests at home. Of these, they won 12, lost 9, drew 36 and tied 1.

The Indian side from 1993 to 2007 (14~ years, McGrath's career length) played 64 Tests at home. Of these they won 31, lost 12 and drew 21.

The Indian side from 2012 to now (12-13 years), has played 56 Tests at home as of this point of posting. Of these, they've won 42, lost 6 and drawn 8.

Which team would be more challenging in a hypothetical match up? Where is the evidence that Marshall and co, or even Aus of the 90s-00s played an Indian team that was as good as the one in the past decade?

 

[Sunil1z]

I am not saying that WI won't be competing, but going with 4 pacers isn't the way to go.... They will need Roger Harper in place of Michael Holding or Joel Garner.

I think we both are in agreement . My problem is with those who believe we will win 3-1 or 3-0.

 

[Socerer 01]

And due to Ashwin and Jadeja we might win the series 2-1 . But we aren’t demolishing them 3-0 or 3-1 . No one is demolishing a side with Marshall/ Garner / Holding and Viv Richards anywhere .

this is the mistake though

i dont think 3-0 or 3-1 is a demolition, they’ll still be well fought test matches but we’ll prevail in the end. just because you lost 3-0 doesnt mean you got demolished, see Pakistan in Australia 2 months ago

 

[Slifer]

Agree with what you say . I believe WI of 80s would find a way to generate reverse swing .
Walsh has the best bowling average by a visiting pacer in IND . So they will definitely find a way to compete .

The thing is, outside of Subs, literally no one said the WI would win in India. Yet you have these people coming out left and right about reverse swing this and that and other bs. You don't need reverse swing to succeed in Asia if you can cut the ball (off and leg cutters).

From the get go, I've said WI would likely lose 2-1 in a 4 test series. I fail to see how this is so controversial. WI has better batting and bowling than the last 2 Aus teams that toured in India and lost 2-1.

 

[subshakerz]

And due to Ashwin and Jadeja we might win the series 2-1 . But we aren’t demolishing them 3-0 or 3-1 . No one is demolishing a side with Marshall/ Garner / Holding and Viv Richards anywhere .

I don't mind the other side saying a 2-1 India win. I am just pushing back against a romping victory for either side.

 

[Gob]

And you haven't provided anything remotely suggesting that especially that Australian batting, half of which crumbled on those flat pitches, have anything on Ashwin and Jadeja..... Kumble was able to draw us a series in Australia for the matter. And if I am not mistaken, after the years of quartet, when WI domination really began ('74 series was 3-2, '78 India walked away with albeit a weaker WSC affected team, and in the tour to WI, Bedi and Chandrashekhar were among the 3 best bowlers alongside Andy Roberts); Narendra Hirwani won us a Test against them on a turning track.

Without McGrath. That was one of the worst aust attacks of all time tbh

I think aus 2004 batting line up would go okay. Probably bit better than wi batting given they have mastered Murali. Real advantage australia would have is two quality spinners and the current indian generation don't play spin as well as their predecessors

 

[Socerer 01]

I think we both are in agreement . My problem is with those who believe we will win 3-1 or 3-0.

just as a hypothetical

2-1 series

India wins by an innings and 100 runs
India wins by 9 wickets
West Indies wins by 2 wickets
Draw

3-0/3-1 series

India wins by 20 runs
India wins by 1 wicket
India wins by 37 runs
Draw/West Indies win by 6 wickets

which of these 2 series would you call more competitive???

 

[Gob]

The thing is, outside of Subs, literally no one said the WI would win in India. Yet you have these people coming out left and right about reverse swing this and that and other bs. You don't need reverse swing to succeed in Asia if you can cut the ball (off and leg cutters).

From the get go, I've said WI would likely lose 2-1 in a 4 test series. I fail to see how this is so controversial. WI has better batting and bowling than the last 2 Aus teams that toured in India and lost 2-1.

I genuinely doubt this

 

[Gob]

Anyway why not we just ask @Nintendo to sim the either series and just stfu afterwards

 

[OverratedSanity]

Over a 4-5 match series, top tier pacers like Mcgrath and Marshall would have an impact at some stage even on dead pitches. It's what makes those quick bowlers special. Very hard to see those teams not winning a single game at the bare minimum. It'd be such an anomaly.

 

[Socerer 01]

Anyway why not we just ask @Nintendo to sim the either series and just stfu afterwards

this requires cricket captain to have proper ratings though

 

[subshakerz]

The thing is, outside of Subs, literally no one said the WI would win in India. Yet you have these people coming out left and right about reverse swing this and that and other bs. You don't need reverse swing to succeed in Asia if you can cut the ball (off and leg cutters).

From the get go, I've said WI would likely lose 2-1 in a 4 test series. I fail to see how this is so controversial. WI has better batting and bowling than the last 2 Aus teams that toured in India and lost 2-1.

I say WI win 2-1 or draw but I admit India may win 2-1 too. It's a close thing.

 

[Sunil1z]

The thing is, outside of Subs, literally no one said the WI would win in India. Yet you have these people coming out left and right about reverse swing this and that and other bs. You don't need reverse swing to succeed in Asia if you can cut the ball (off and leg cutters).

From the get go, I've said WI would likely lose 2-1 in a 4 test series. I fail to see how this is so controversial. WI has better batting and bowling than the last 2 Aus teams that toured in India and lost 2-1.

I think age of some of these posters are 20-25 . And IND haven’t lost a Test series at home since they have started watching cricket . So they really believe that IND can’t be beaten at home . 1or 2 series loss at home will be a rude awakening for them .

 

[OverratedSanity]

I genuinely doubt this

It's kinda true though. There've been many pacers who've done well in India without needing to necessarily rely on reverse. If you have a deadly reverse swing master like Steyn it definitely supercharges your chances because a bowler like that is likely to win a game basically on his own in one 6 over spell, but I wouldn't say it's mandatory for you to succeed.

 

[Nintendo]

Give me a squad of 18 players for the three teams and I'll gladly do it. Assume both series are played in india.