How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[Socerer 01]

And I genuinely didn't ask you. Reverse swing begun in the early 80s thanks to Safraz and Imran but bowlers before and since have toured India without it, with varying degrees of success: Roberts, Donald, Walsh, McGrath, Holding, Pollock etc. And that too vs batting lineups either as good as the current or better.

And for the millionth time I already said India would win what exactly more do you and your cohorts want? Good grief!!

im sure its a coincidence that none of these names are recent and everyone recent barring Morkel has struggled to dominate in India despite our batting being **** according to everyone here

 

[Gob]

Just give the squads to @Nintendo

 

[OverratedSanity]

Will say though, that Rabada and Cummins really struggling to make an impact here on their tours cant be completely ignored. It's obviously not proof Mcgrath Marshall and co would suck but it's something.

 

[Socerer 01]

Will say though, that Rabada and Cummins really struggling to make an impact here on their tours cant be completely ignored. It's obviously not proof Mcgrath Marshall and co would suck but it's something.

this is what ive been saying all along along with needing decent spinners and it seems like an alien concept to some here

 

[OverratedSanity]

Think it's something that should probably be held against rabada and Cummins a bit more than it is because India's pacers in those same series did better.

 

[Slifer]

so a 2-1 is fine but India eeking out another win to make it 3-1 is highly unrealistic?

i cant even

It is because:

A. that's precisely the scoreline India achieved vs successive Aus teams with inferior batting and bowling to the WI.

B. WI lost no more than one away test per series between 1976 and 1991. Lost no away series between 1978 and 1997.

 

[Socerer 01]

Think it's something that should probably be held against rabada and Cummins a bit more than it is because India's pacers in those same series did better.

i would accept that if other touring pacers did well but Morkel is the only one who has dominated while others have ranged from decent to meh to downright hideous

 

[R!TTER]

The likes of Mcgrath, Donald, Pollock, Walsh all made life hell for Indian batsmen without really hooping it with the old ball.

True but generally all of them played against sh!t openers. Everyone except McGrath/Pollock vs Sehwag & Sehwag did great in the one flat deck at Chennai batting second. Was wrongly given lbw in second innings at Bangalore by crooked finger Bowden & had two fairly seam friendly decks in Nagpur/Mumbai where he failed. On flat decks Sehwag/RGS/KL or Jaiswal could definitely negate the new ball - could being the keyword. Also one thing to note that Oz/Eng wins came in the cooler months after/around Diwali so that also makes a lot of difference. If it's closer to March/April India should be overwhelming favorites because pacers can't operate for long in that heat & you don't have early morning help in most venues.

 

[Socerer 01]

It is because:

A. that's precisely the scoreline India achieved vs successive Aus teams with inferior batting and bowling to the WI.

B. WI lost no more than one away test per series between 1976 and 1991. Lost no away series between 1978 and 1997.

A. idk how West Indies have a superior bowling attack to Australia for our conditions with 0 spinners

B. sure but West Indies werent facing a team like Kohli’s India at home in any of those tests

 

[Slifer]

im sure its a coincidence that none of these names are recent and everyone recent barring Morkel has struggled to dominate in India despite our batting being **** according to everyone here

It was only one test but I distinctly remember during the last time WI toured, India absolutely destroyed WI but either in the first of 2nd test, WI made 300 odd (I can't remember) and India were coasting along only for Holder to run through their lineup with a 5 for and dismiss them around the same score. Again, one test and it proves nothing but it's something to ponder.....

 

[Sunil1z]

Think it's something that should probably be held against rabada and Cummins a bit more than it is because India's pacers in those same series did better.

Will say though, that Rabada and Cummins really struggling to make an impact here on their tours cant be completely ignored. It's obviously not proof Mcgrath Marshall and co would suck but it's something.

Cummins isn’t as good as McGrath no matter what his average is . I don’t see us winning in Aus if we replace Cummins with McGrath

 

[Socerer 01]

It was only one test but I distinctly remember during the last time WI toured, India absolutely destroyed WI but either in the first of 2nd test, WI made 300 odd (I can't remember) and India were coasting along only for Holder to run through their lineup with a 5 for and dismiss them around the same score. Again, one test and it proves nothing but it's something to ponder.....

Holder is 1 of those 8 pacers i mentioned having an average below 30 tbf

 

[Socerer 01]

Cummins isn’t as good as McGrath no matter what his average is . I don’t see us winning in Aus if we replace Cummins with McGrath

bro what is the rate of panipuri in your area?

 

[Slifer]

A. idk how West Indies have a superior bowling attack to Australia for our conditions with 0 spinners

B. sure but West Indies werent facing a team like Kohli’s India at home in any of those tests

How old are you? Genuine question. Because a bowling attack of Roberts, Holding and Marshall even in India is superior to recent Aus attacks because they took the wicket out of the equation.

Kids here act like the flat and/or spinning wickets India currently have are anything new. And WI bowlers have had success on these very same wickets vs Indian batting lineups equal to or better than the current.

That's the thing, I think a lot of you posters haven't seen a decent WI lineup in your lifetime, so you don't know any better.


As for B, India haven't faced a team like WI (or Australia for that matter) at home in any test. And for the umpteenth time nobody said WI would win they'd likely lose. If you think they'd get stomped then good on you. I don't...

 

[Sunil1z]

@Nintendo

You can use this Team

KL Rahul, Rohit , Pujara , Kohli , Rahane , Pant , Jadeja, Ashwin, Kuldeep, Shami , Bumrah

Reserve squad : Saha , Shreyas Iyer , Axar Patel , Umesh Yadav , Mayank Agarwal, Gill

 

[OverratedSanity]

Cummins isn’t as good as McGrath no matter what his average is . I don’t see us winning in Aus if we replace Cummins with McGrath

You misunderstand me. I'm not arguing rabada and Cummins are as good as Marshall and Mcgrath. But rabada and Cummins, two ATG bowlers, were outperformed significantly in those series in India by the likes of Shami/Umesh/Ishant etc. So it's possible that if the peak India team plays 2000s Australia or 80s WI, India's pace bowlers don't bowl that much worse than Mcgrath/Marshall in those series.

 

[Slifer]

Holder is 1 of those 8 pacers i mentioned having an average below 30 tbf

Just looked it up. 2nd test WI made 311 and India were 314-4. Got bowled out for 367. WI still lost by 10 wickets but even for one test, Holder showed you can fluke your way to a 5 for in India without reversing it.

 

[Sunil1z]

You misunderstand me. I'm not arguing rabada and Cummins are as good as Marshall and Mcgrath. But those two ATG bowlers were outperformed significantly in those series in India by the likes of Shami/Umesh/Ishant etc. So it's possible that if the peak India team plays 2000s Australia or 80s WI, India's pace bowlers don't bowl that much worse than Mcgrath/Marshall in those series.

That is definitely a possibility. But I believe there would be atleast 1 or 2 innings where IND gets bowled out for 120-130 score because of Marshall/ McGrath.

 

[Socerer 01]

How old are you? Genuine question. Because a bowling attack of Roberts, Holding and Marshall even in India is superior to recent Aus attacks because they took the wicket out of the equation.

Kids here act like the flat and/or spinning wickets India currently have are anything new. And WI bowlers have had success on these very same wickets vs Indian batting lineups equal to or better than the current.

That's the thing, I think a lot of you posters haven't seen a decent WI lineup in your lifetime, so you don't know any better.


As for B, India haven't faced a team like WI (or Australia for that matter) at home in any test. And for the umpteenth time nobody said WI would win they'd likely lose. If you think they'd get stomped then good on you. I don't...

we arent just talking about 1 or 2 factors in isolation though, its the combined effect that makes the Indian team difficult to beat

id like to see those batting lineups that those West Indies pace bowlers dominated against on similar conditions that are also better than the peak of Kohli’s India?

the age argument is so dismissive that i dont even want to engage in it since i could use the same logic against you and say nostalgia is blinding you

 

[Socerer 01]

Just looked it up. 2nd test WI made 311 and India were 314-4. Got bowled out for 367. WI still lost by 10 wickets but even for one test, Holder showed you can fluke your way to a 5 for in India without reversing it.

if you’re relying on 1 offs like that then i dont see why a 3-1 is unrealistic? idk why you think a 3-1 loss is a stomp or something when i explicitly said that it would be a hard fought 3-1 or 3-0 loss