*Official* Australia vs South Africa -2022/3

[ataraxia]

Don't think klassan is a test #3 long term but he looks a good bat, hopefully he gets a longer run down the order.

grr

 

[morgieb]

Can't get lucky there.

 

[Nintendo]

Going forward for SA

1.Elgar/Van tonder/richards
2.De Zorzi
3.Rickelton
4.Bavuma (C)
5.Klassan
6.Veryenne

Don't care what they do with the lower order at that point, this top six shouldn't get rolled for sub 200 every game, and on the decks where they do SA's bowling depth should keep them in the contest.

 

[Starfighter]

With the ball reversing a bit on this wicket, an express bowler might have been useful in comparison to a rather poor left-arm spinner or an extra batsman who was never really going to be required.

 

[StephenZA]

I understand you are very frustrated, but I don't believe for a second the complete rebuild you are advocating for has any chance whatsoever of working in the manner you think. Rather than players initially failing but building in confidence and kicking on in 2-3 years as you say, what is infinitely more likely those early failures weighing said players down to the point where it would almost be cruel to keep selecting them, and then whoever eventually replaces them would then go into exactly the same cycle, rinse and repeat. I fundamentally do not believe putting players, especially those with little experience, into such sink or swim situations will ever be a beneficial thing towards their careers

But continuing to do the same thing badly will suddenly make everything better? I would rather give the players an opportunity to test themselves and prove themselves than just say, you to young. It is such a player to player thing to see how they will react to situations. Some will thrive some won't.

And what experience does Bavuma and Elgar provide for young players?... we not talking Amla, Faf, Kallis, ABdV or Smith in the team passing on good advice. We talking Elgar and Bavuma. Neither have shown high enough competence at this level that provides the sort of leadership and experience required. And nobody is advocating for 19 year olds. I`m talking about players who are 23-27 years of age. And SA has plenty of experience and knowledge available to players sitting in coaching positions, consultancy and ex-players that have said openly they are willing to help. It just requires actually being used correctly. And that requires the CSA to actually be sensible and do things right and give them opportunity to help.

Also you mention support, and honestly nothing about CSA as an orginisation gives me any faith they can provide that

And this is still true regardless of the method you pick to try fix the situation... so yes a fundamental level of requirement, whatever direction you go, is that the CSA as an organisation needs to dramatically improve.

 

[halba]

captains to shake on it with about 1.3 overs left.

i said they should've shook on this a while back. pointless game this SCG test - no backup days for wet weather??

 

[Nintendo]

If bavuma has a dumb truck that large why does he not simply block the ball with that instead? Far firmer then his bat and more surface area.

 

[Prince EWS]

But continuing to do the same thing badly will suddenly make everything better?

No-one in this thread is advocating for doing the same thing. This is a silly straw man.

 

[Nintendo]

If our second spinner is agar and we're not 100% on him being better than a hazlewood in india are we better off just saying **** it and picking 3 seamers+lyon+green? If the deck is ragging square than head-marnus-smith should be fine as a second spinner, otherwise I don't see an aga/murphy outdoing our 3rd pace option (whether it be boland or haze or morris or whoever).

 

[GoodAreasShane]

But continuing to do the same thing badly will suddenly make everything better? I would rather give the players an opportunity to test themselves and prove themselves than just say, you to young. It is such a player to player thing to see how they will react to situations. Some will thrive some won't.

And what experience does Bavuma and Elgar provide for young players?... we not talking Amla, Faf, Kallis, ABdV or Smith in the team passing on good advice. We talking Elgar and Bavuma. Neither have shown high enough competence at this level that provides the sort of leadership and experience required. And nobody is advocating for 19 year olds. I`m talking about players who are 23-27 years of age. And SA has plenty of experience and knowledge available to players sitting in coaching positions, consultancy and ex-players that have said openly they are willing to help. It just requires actually being used correctly. And that requires the CSA to actually be sensible and do things right and give them opportunity to help.

And this is still true regardless of the method you pick to try fix the situation... so yes a fundamental level of requirement, whatever direction you go, is that the CSA as an organisation needs to dramatically improve.

My entire point is the chances if any single player actually thriving decreases dramatically the more you ask from them early on. I know you don't see it that way, but I wholeheartedly believe you are 100% setting players up for failure by going down that path

No arguments on the last bit of the post though

 

[StephenZA]

No-one in this thread is advocating for doing the same thing. This is a silly straw man.

What do you think the current teams entire selection policy is based on?... the need for experience. They are literally ignoring the younger less experienced players. You guys are advocating keeping Bavuma and Elgar over what I want. Bavuma I`m ok with for multiply reasons. But I don't see the point of keeping Elgar at this stage. I literally do not see what he is bringing to the team at this stage.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Don't think klassan is a test #3 long term but he looks a good bat, hopefully he gets a longer run down the order.

Klaasen would be amazing in England's team , just that in this SA team with no identity and no confidence he's conformed to the conservative approach , this innings a classic example I think he was run a ball for his first 20 runs , got bobbed down and out for 35 in 61 . If he's to have a successful Test career he has to play to his strengths.. Smashing the cricket ball to all parts like he does for the Titans

 

[Kirkut]

We should have bowled more short stuff to Elgar in South Africa, instead Bumrah/Siraj were all relying on movement off the pitch.

 

[Spark]

What do you think the current teams entire selection policy is based on?... the need for experience. They are literally ignoring the younger less experienced players. You guys are advocating keeping Bavuma and Elgar over what I want. Bavuma I`m ok with for multiply reasons. But I don't see the point of keeping Elgar at this stage. I literally do not see what he is bringing to the team at this stage.

There's a massive difference between picking two experienced guys vs picking six and it's kind of disappointing to see you constantly conflate the two

 

[StephenZA]

My entire point is the chances if any single player actually thriving decreases dramatically the more you ask from them early on. I know you don't see it that way, but I wholeheartedly believe you are 100% setting players up for failure by going down that path

No arguments on the second bit of the post though

I am not saying that what you propose is not the more ideal circumstance, it is exactly what I was advocating 4 years ago while players I mentioned were still around... unfortunately that time has passed, and that method iof doing things is no really available and for me keeping players on that are more of a detriment to the future, just makes it worse. So this is what I`m advocating in this less than ideal situation.

 

[Kirkut]

Sorry, I know you caught that ball at knee height but your fingers were split and that's enough for a not out decision now.

Just absolute junk logic

In the video there was no clearance between the surface of the ball and the grass (real time it was a clean catch, I agree).

Technology is never perfect.

 

[StephenZA]

There's a massive difference between picking two experienced guys vs picking six and it's kind of disappointing to see you constantly conflate the two

A different two experienced guys and I would agree with you. In this line-up of fc 'experience' Bavuma and Elgar are still the only guys that have real Test experience. So the entire point of keeping them on is not because they may be the best choices but because they are literally the only choices. Even if not good enough. And that is where I have a problem, I literally don't think that they provide enough overall to actually make a difference.

 

[social]

Playing 2 spinners rarely works for Australia

Fact is that we have many quicks who are better bowlers than our 2nd choice spinner irrespective of conditions

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

I think Elgar needs to go , because to be a top team or recognised as a top team in Test cricket you have to compete away from home and Elgar throughout his career even when he was at his peak , has constantly disappointed when we tour , add to that his age and the performance as test captain it makes the decision easier.

 

[Bahseph]

I don't think Elgar is a very good captain,or tactical mind for that matter,but he probably has bought himself a few more series in the side due to his track record (more so at home). Petersen would have been at 3 on this tour if he didn't injure his hamstring. Markram was dropped because he has been incredibly poor over the last 3 years or so in Tests. Hamza literally got himself banned. Rickelton is the one there are no excuses for imo, he was left out so Zondo could play as far as I'm concerned. Has been smashing hundreds in every format back home on an "injured" ankle.

Erwee was always going to be a short term option,but he hasn't gone as well as everyone hoped. Rassie shouldn't have a Test career after this series,it was plain for anyone to see if you actually watch him bat in Tests. Zondo should not have been there,but his selection comes with a whole other discussion that I wouldn't get into right now. Bavuma does just enough all the time to never be the worst batsman in the side,and thus can't be dropped.