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*Official* Australia vs South Africa -2022/3

quincywagstaff

quincywagstaff

International Debutant
Elgar apparently averaged less this series than Warner did in the 2019 Ashes - quite an achievement!



Hard to think of a more abject display by a touring Test captain to Australia in recent decades. Probably have to go back to Jimmy Adams on 00/01 tour or Jeff Crowe in 87/88.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Prince EWS said:
Markram is clearly one of the best six bats, it's really just a matter of how much of a reset and new rope is required to get him out of his own head. Might need a new coach+captain combination.

I know he wants to be an opener but he should totally bat 3 or 4 too. He's the star bat, could average 50+ there with a new lease on life.
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Markrams problems is he's a little loose outside with hard hands so struggles as an opener, but simultaneously has some problems against spin, so batting him 4 becomes a problem. I agree he should bat 4 though, I think he can deal with the spin issues given enough help and time and then 4 definitely becomes his best spot.
 
Starfighter

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
quincywagstaff said:
Elgar apparently averaged less this series than Warner did in the 2019 Ashes - quite an achievement!



Hard to think of a more abject display by a touring Test captain to Australia in recent decades. Probably have to go back to Jimmy Adams on 00/01 tour or Jeff Crowe in 87/88.
Click to expand...
Elgar averaged 9.33
Adams 18.88
Crowe 13.00

Might well be the worst ever. It would have to be one of the worst performances by a visiting captain in any series, or any captain.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dendarii said:
Keegan Petersen hasn't set the world alight, but he's been solid enough that he probably deserves be retained in the short-term. Raynard van Tonder is another candidate, as well as possible recalls for Aiden Markram and Zubayr Hamza.
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Keegan has looked the business though. He has got the skills, need to see if he can settle and start converting, would actually consider van Tonder as an opener. I think it might be his best spot in the team.

My main reason to get rid of Elgar at this stage (other than poor form) is that he has shown to be part of the problem rather than helping create solutions. And we know it makes a big difference ask England and Ben Stokes.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Prince EWS said:
Seriously though I agree.

1 Elgar
2
3
4
5 Bavuma (c)
6 Verreyene (wk)
7 Mulder
8 Jansen
9 Maharaj
10 Rabada
11 Nortje

That should be the guts of the team. Ngidi first in if one the quicks is injured/needs resting, Hamer in for Jansen (or maybe in for Mulder, but ehh long tail) in Asia.

They need new blood in the top order. This much is very clear.

I've never been a Bavuma fan at all - tbh I reckon he should have played zero Tests so far in his career - but he's been their best bat for the last couple of years despite not getting big scores, and sacking an entire batting lineup at once is silly.

If all this means they have to play Zondo and Lucky for a bunch of JAMODIs and JAMT20Is to make up some averages then so be it, really.
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Why keep Elgar? What does he add to the team at this stage?
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
GoodAreasShane said:
Because two rookie openers at the same time is a recipe for nothing but abject disaster
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Depends on the openers and the support. If you think I expect changing the entire batting line-up suddenly changes the fortunes of SA cricket, you're wrong. I not talking about winning games I`m talking about developing a team again, its going to take another 2-3 years at minimum to see real progress.

Brutally most of the non-SA supporters are putting in their 2cents based on a single tour that has brought these problems to the fore on an extreme basis, the SA supporters knew it was coming. No surprise whatsoever. This discussion is nearing the end of it cycle, what you are advocating is what any reasonable SA supporter was advocating 4 years ago. Since then no progress has been made and nothing was done and it has resulted in the situation we see SA in now. Its 4 years too late for a slow transitionary change its time for a complete rebuild.

Prince EWS said:
Batting.

LIke I reckon you're nuts if you don't reckon he's one of the best six bats. He struggled to juggle batting and captaincy and he was a **** captain - alright, take the captaincy away from him and see what happens.
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I am most definitely nuts, but I also don't think he is one of the best six bats in the country. The only thing he has going for his position is experience. But based on his captaincy and attitude I don't think he is the right guy to pass that experience onto the younger players in his team.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Prince EWS said:
Seriously though I agree.

1 Elgar
2
3
4
5 Bavuma (c)
6 Verreyene (wk)
7 Mulder
8 Jansen
9 Maharaj
10 Rabada
11 Nortje

That should be the guts of the team. Ngidi first in if one the quicks is injured/needs resting, Hamer in for Jansen (or maybe in for Mulder, but ehh long tail) in Asia.

They need new blood in the top order. This much is very clear.

I've never been a Bavuma fan at all - tbh I reckon he should have played zero Tests so far in his career - but he's been their best bat for the last couple of years despite not getting big scores, and sacking an entire batting lineup at once is silly.

If all this means they have to play Zondo and Lucky for a bunch of JAMODIs and JAMT20Is to make up some averages then so be it, really.
Click to expand...

Markram and the new KP in there would be good too. Probably at 3 and 4.
 
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