Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[morgieb]

Not sure he's been ahead of O'Keefe for any of that period tbh

That was kinda my point - that you couldn't ever justify Holland over O'Keefe let alone Lyon.

 

[StephenZA]

Think as long as Lyon isn't linked to the ball tampering etc... his place is probably the most secure of any player in the side right now. Had a brilliant couple of years has 300 wickets and is young enough to comfortably reach 450+ and spinners usually keep improving into their 30's so he is the right age anyway. Why throw away the years of perseverance with him when he has suddenly been rewarding that.

One problem with this is that its difficult to believe that anybody who actual bowls is not party to the tampering, as they are all integral to looking after the ball....

 

[S.Kennedy]

Bancroft should have used double-sided tape and stuck the thing permanently in the palm of his hand: no pocket removals and rubbing the ball would look completely innocuous. Typical Australians: nowt between the ears (even when they are up to their usual dark arts).

 

[flibbertyjibber]

One problem with this is that its difficult to believe that anybody who actual bowls is not party to the tampering, as they are all integral to looking after the ball....

Well I can't see all the attack plus Smith, Warner and Bancroft being banned/blamed. It would be a massive shock to everyone if they all got punished by CA.

Who knows, it may happen but I think Smith, Warner and Lehmann will be the ones that carry the can for this and the rest just get severe warnings about their future conduct.

 

[Starfighter]

That was kinda my point - that you couldn't ever justify Holland over O'Keefe let alone Lyon.

O'Keefe also has some batting in his stead (average of 27), though he's never translated it to international level when given the chance(except for his epic stonewall). I think Holland has a pretty poor reputation as a fielder too. I think it's his tendency to alcohol-iduced incidents that has pushed him back in sectors minds. Very hard to justify picking Holland ahead of him on cricketing grounds.

Did anyone here in 2011 pick Lyon getting 300 test wickets? That would have been a spectacular long shot.

 

[StephenZA]

Reading an article today, it sounds like Fanie De Villiers (on the afrikaans commentary team) asked for the cameramen to watch the Aussies, because he believed they were getting the ball to reverse before the 20th over. They spotted Bancroft and then followed him with the camera....

 

[Bolo]

Bancroft should have used double-sided tape and stuck the thing permanently in the palm of his hand: no pocket removals and rubbing the ball would look completely innocuous. Typical Australians: nowt between the ears (even when they are up to their usual dark arts).

True if it had been tape. Double sided sandpaper would be pretty rough on the hand

 

[StephenZA]

Well I can't see all the attack plus Smith, Warner and Bancroft being banned/blamed. It would be a massive shock to everyone if they all got punished by CA.

Who knows, it may happen but I think Smith, Warner and Lehmann will be the ones that carry the can for this and the rest just get severe warnings about their future conduct.

I`m interested to see what happens to Warner... obviously Smith lost the captaincy and has been banned, but Warner in a similar boat? Don't believe Bancroft deserves a ban. Lehmann should just be fired if for no other reason than bringing a culture into the Aus team that just appears toxic.

 

[Starfighter]

One problem with this is that its difficult to believe that anybody who actual bowls is not party to the tampering, as they are all integral to looking after the ball....

Just because they handle the ball does't mean they're the ones actively doing it or even being party to it, especially with Lyon not being the beneficiary of the action. There's lots of things that can alter the condition of the ball, even within overs. Would someone necessarily notice a little extra scuffing compared to what comes from the pitch? He does seem to be on the inner circle which increases the chance of him being party to it.

At least he wasn't doing a Pat Symcox or anything.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Here's what match referee Andy Pycroft had to say about Bancroft:

"To carry a foreign object on to the field of play with the intention of changing the condition of the ball to gain an unfair advantage over your opponent is against not only the Laws, but the Spirit of the game as well," he said. "That said, I acknowledge that Cameron has accepted responsibility for his actions by pleading guilty to the charge and apologising publicly. As a young player starting out in international cricket, I hope the lessons learned from this episode will strongly influence the way he plays the game during the rest of his career."

Hang on...it's not like Bancroft has only played 8 games of cricket in his life. The rules were exactly the same when he was a schoolboy, a grade cricketer, a State cricketer...He's played hundreds of matches over a long long period of time. Now all of a sudden he's gullible, naive or stupid because he's new to playing Tests? Give me a break - if anything, it should be exactly the opposite.

Aww poor gullible Bancroft.

 

[Senile Sentry]

I`m interested to see what happens to Warner... obviously Smith lost the captaincy and has been banned, but Warner in a similar boat? Don't believe Bancroft deserves a ban. Lehmann should just be fired if for no other reason than bringing a culture into the Aus team that just appears toxic.

Other cricketers have been banned for lesser offences by ICC. Harbhajan Singh (despite being Harbhajan Singh) had a point in his rant where he mentioned that the current punishment meted out to Bancroft (75% of match fee) is lesser than what he got for showing dissent at umpiring decision (75% match fee and a match ban).

 

[Pratters]

Yeah I don't agree with the be easy on him as he is new in tests etc. Test cricket is the highest form of the game and standards have to be maintained. If people are caught cheating, they have to be dealt with strongly. Ban Warner Bancroft and Smith for two years each. Also, ICC putting out such a mild punishment reflects poorly on them, not for the first time obviously, but needs to be said.

 

[Johnners]

Been interesting gauging the reaction of friends and people I work with today. Half think its a bit of a laugh at how stupid they were but think strip Smith & Warner of C/VC with a couple match ban at worst, whilst there were others carrying on about how they'd much rather lose for the next 10 years than see Smith/Warner play again as it's "not the Australia way". Interestingly, one of the outraged also noted how he couldn't believe Warne got a years ban for "a flaming diet pill".

 

[michaelm]

Pycroft mentioned his age and inexperience in the context of hoping Bancroft will learn a lesson from the episode.

'Cept he should have already learnt it...long long ago...

It would have been drilled into him - don't cheat. Just don't.

Unless he grew up under the very close influence of someone who said, "Yeah - go right ahead and cheat. It's fine!"

 

[cnerd123]

'Cept he should have already learnt it...long long ago...

It would have been drilled into him - don't cheat. Just don't.

Unless he grew up under the very close influence of someone who said, "Yeah - go right ahead and cheat. It's fine!"

AKA a typical Australian childhood then

 

[TestMatch]

Boult surprised by Aussies' reverse -2016

New Zealand paceman Trent Boult was impressed with the reverse-swing produced by Australia in the first Test, saying his side should learn from the tourists.

Mitchell Marsh, Josh Hazlewood and Jackson Bird all had the old ball hooping during NZ's second innings in Wellington, helping Australia cruise to victory.

Boult, regarded as one of the best swing bowlers in the world, felt there were lessons in it for both the Black Caps' batsmen and bowlers.

"We didn't get it to go at all," he said.

"They got it to go nicely and it worked very effectively for them.

"It was pretty surprising.

"We could learn a thing or two from them in regards to if nothing is happening on a flat wicket, then how valuable reverse-swing is.

"They did that nicely, but I'm not sure how much we'll see of that down at Hagley Oval."

The second Test starts on Saturday in Christchurch, where both sides are fully expecting a green seamer.

"It's very green down there and a massive green outfield. We'll look at it (using reverse-swing) but I can't promise it," Boult said.

Reverse-swing is elusive but often creates havoc when bowlers get it right.

It generally has as much to do with conditions as it does a paceman's technique.

"We got lucky, someone hit a cut shot and it really scuffed up one side of the ball," Australia skipper Steve Smith said.

"So that really got it started for us."

Boult added his side had to learn from every aspect of the innings-and-52-run loss at the Basin Reserve.

"They're the best team in the world for a reason and this is what you play for, to play against the best teams and perform against the best players," he said.

"We've been in this situation before. We're looking forward to hopefully levelling the series."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/tre...w-zealand-hagley-oval-christchurch/2016-02-17

 

[Shri]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricke...est-bancroft-escapes-ban-20180325-p4z670.html

Other seasoned members of the team who have been involved in the team’s leadership group at different stages – Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood and Nathan Lyon – have privately denied any involvement in the plot and there has been dissatisfaction that they were effectively thrown under the bus and unfairly tainted.

Don't see how Smith can ever again be taken seriously as a senior in the side tbh.

 

[Shri]

24 members browsing this thread. Possibly more. And we are also close to hitting 1000.

 

[StephenZA]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricke...est-bancroft-escapes-ban-20180325-p4z670.html

Other seasoned members of the team who have been involved in the team’s leadership group at different stages – Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood and Nathan Lyon – have privately denied any involvement in the plot and there has been dissatisfaction that they were effectively thrown under the bus and unfairly tainted.

Don't see how Smith can ever again be taken seriously as a senior in the side tbh.

Oh yes it would be a real shock the bowlers might have known that the ball was being tampered with, and/or actually been party to a discussion on how to get the ball moving?

 

[Shri]

Odds on Maxwell returning to the test side as captain?