*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

[GIMH]

411 have been counting down their favourite manias in reverse order for the past 28 days, just 17 and 19 left to go, you'd imagine 19 will be in second

Has really made me want to watch loads of various bits of Manias. Hence I have just watched Bret-Owen and am now about to watch Shawn-Razor from X (which was ranked third)

I actually agree with their top five (not necessarily the order) except that they have XX whereas I'd have 26, though I seem to overrate that versus most people. XXX was the other they had in the top five

 

[sledger]

I got really excited at the idea of watching WM21 the other day actually. But then remembered that the two main event matches were crap and decided I cbf.

 

[GIMH]

I don't think there's been a 'bad' Mania from 19 onwards. Some of them have lacked that one match but have had quality all over the card while others, such as 25 and 27 have had a top drawer match with little else.

I hate watching Manias in normal sized arenas now though. Just doesn't seem right

Also. Every year, you hype up to mania. You watch the pre-show (okay this is a recent thing) and wait for midnight. Mania comes on and it's electric and you remember why you love pro-wrestling

Then they sing America the beautiful and kill your buzz for five minutes

 

[GIMH]

Ps do you have the network yet ****

 

[sledger]

Yeah, really do love the big time feel you get from watching WM. Got it as a kid, and still get it now to some extent.

On crap Manias, I would say WM 22 whilst not being really crap, doesn't have a great deal to redeem it. Some of the stuff on the card was nothing short of TV fare (Carlito and Chris Masters vs Kane and Big Show, and Booker T vs Boogeyman for instance).

 

[sledger]

Ps do you have the network yet ****

Not yet, my Internet has been really dire this week. Reluctant to get it until I get the damn line fixed.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, really do love the big time feel you get from watching WM. Got it as a kid, and still get it now to some extent.

On crap Manias, I would say WM 22 whilst not being really crap, doesn't have a great deal to redeem it. Some of the stuff on the card was nothing short of TV fare (Carlito and Chris Masters vs Kane and Big Show, and Booker T vs Boogeyman for instance).

Yeah 22 is probably the worst of the modern ones. 27 gets a lot of hate and I'm not sure if I've ever watched it since it happened, but HHH-Taker was awesome (and I didn't want to like it because I was hung up on the Shawn matches), Orton-Punk was decent and I don't think much stank. But the main event was subpar like they were both on eggshells waiting for The Rock's piece. Shame as well as I'm a big fan of both guys. And Bryan-Sheamus got shunted to the pre-show but at least they got to do it the following year

 

[sledger]

Yeah. For me 22, 25 and 27 are the worst, and by quite some distance as well. If 25 didn't have that match on it, it would probably be the worst of the lot by quite a way.

 

[GIMH]

Been reading back through the old thread and I really enjoyed 25 at the time

I think part of it was I had a great night, mates round, pizza, beer, classic DVDs on beforehand. And I hadn't watched a live Mania for a little while

And the other part was that Taker-Shawn was so good in a way I don't think any other wrestling match has ever encapsulated me

The ending to the PPV sucked though. Big time and I said that at the time

The rest of the show was decent but not quite Mania quality and there's no real re watch quality

 

[GIMH]

Seeing as you asked. GIMH ranks the manias

2
1
9
11
5
4
7
6
15
16
12
13
8
3
18
22
27
21
25
14
29
20
23
24
28
30
10
26
19
17

 

[sledger]

I enjoyed bits of WM25, mainly for similar reasons. But the show was let down by most of its matches I thought, especially the main event. And in hindsight the Matt vs Jeff feud probably wasn't a great idea. Matt as a singles competitor was just no good.

 

[Dan]

Watching Summerslam 2013 out of procrastination. Gonna do the CW equivalent of live-tweeting for the sake of it.

Thought #1 -- When did this whole "host of <PPV>" thing become a thing? Not necessarily a bad idea, but it's weird having Miz introducing the matches to the crowd rather than a Jim Ross-led rundown of the card.

 

[Dan]

Fandango's ring gear reminds me of John Morrison's. Also Miz's "really? really?" reaction to Fandango randomly showing up for no reason is gun. How can people not like The Miz?

Yep, GIMH's right about the national anthem. Zzzzz

Kane improves by 100% when he's masked. Ok, so Bray Wyatt is debuting here, and there's a creepy fake animal head accompanying him. I swear this entire gimmick is a rip off of True Detective. I must admit, being carried down the ramp on a chair is pretty cool.

Ring of Fire, hey? And because the fire isn't enough, they need a red version of Sin Cara lightning. I suppose this thing is cool for the sake of the visual, especially with the fire 'reacting' to impact, but this is really gimmicky. The referee's reactions are hilarious as well -- he seems to be the one most worried about the flames, despite Bray's dodgy acting.

Ugh, interference in matches where the gimmick is added to prevent interference is the worst. Admittedly, the flaming kendo stick and using the fire extinguisher to no effect were fun visuals, but FMD this is a cheap ending. And the in-ring action was mediocre at best, as usually happens in this type of match. I guess the spinning reverse STO was kinda cool, but totally unoriginal. Post-match steel steps stuff is alright, I guess, and the motif of the lantern is cool.

For a gimmick all about being original and innovative and creepy, this really doesn't seem that original at all; it's literally the same feel as True Detective.

5/10. Was going to give it 4, but then Lawler showed that he simultaneously knows what asbestos is, but doesn't seem to realise why bringing it into a public arena would be a bad idea in 2013.

 

[Dan]

This panel thing is weird too. It's like they're trying to give it a feel of legitimacy in an ESPN-ish presentation with analysis and stuff, but interacting with kayfabe is, erm, strange. Have they stopped this yet? It doesn't strike me as something that would actually work in pro wrestling. That beard on HBK though, 10/10, and I'll blindly support anything that gets Shawn back on my 'TV' screen.

 

[Dan]

Heyman's still the best talker WWE has.

Holy ****, Sandow had a MITB Briefcase? The leather briefcase being chained to him is a nice touch, but the 'intellectual' gimmick doesn't exactly work when you say literally nothing intellectual. Oh and Cody Rhodes is still as bland as ever? Has he ever actually been over of his own accord?

hahahaha referencing a 'X thrown into the Gulf of Mexico' angle. Those are always amazing, and never really get old.

Both of these guys are solid in-ring competitors; I really think they've wasted Sandow over the years, he's good in the ring, has a decent enough look, and can talk.

Nice enough opening exchanges, the pacing is good, Sandow's more athletic for his size than I would have expected, and seeing the Russian Leg Sweep make a comeback is fun. Oh and the modified liontamer-esque sharpshooter was cool. Rhodes with a muscle buster (I think that's what it is). That's a move that really needs to come back more, especially as a finished (hurry up and sign Joe!)

Really enjoying this match, actually. Back-and-forth with the big moves well distributed -- the springboard dropkick was pretty nice, and Cody hit another springboard kick thingo later on -- didn't realise he used the ropes that often. Bit more back-and-forth offence, and then Rhodes hits his finisher out of nowhere. I feel like that match should have been given an extra 5 minutes or so, and is the kind of match that wouldn't have been out of place in mid-80s NWA.

7/10. Loses points for being too short, but otherwise this was a seriously good mid-card match. Rhodes could be so good if he had an iota of personality.

 

[Dan]

Christian. Ok, can someone explain this guy to me? He's good in the ring, was never obviously inferior to Edge in the Edge and Christian days, is a good talker and connects with fans, but FMD he's never actually done anything. I honestly cannot understand why he's never really been up in the World Title picture for any extended period -- sure, he's not a 'top guy', but as an upper midcarder you should be getting the occasional foray towards the World Titles. And his ECW Championship run showed that he could do it, I guess.

The career video package was cool; iirc he's basically been injured for the majority of 2010 to now, so this strikes me as a 'we're giving him the main event run he deserves for his loyalty, before the body gives up' kind of thing, which is nice to see. I'm a sentimental guy when it comes to these things.

I quite liked del Rio, and was glad to see him get to the top. And holy **** getting Lillian to introduce him in Spanish is brilliant, though that drawing heat makes anti-nationalist Dan sad. The start of this match makes me think it's going to be a cracker -- two guys who can wrestle and know the business, know how to pace a match, and certainly can tell a story. The missed baseball slide resulting in the heel getting back in the ring first is such a classic spot. Oh and Christian counters it! Really pushing Christian as the journeyman veteran here IMO. Del Rio countering the superplex by slipping out is gun, and the running corner enziguri is great. Now they're pushing del Rio as the agile big man with a history in literally everything. This guy should have been huge!

Working over a body part is such an underrated way to structure a match. Focusing on Christian's shoulder is gun given we've got the Cross Armbreaker coming. Oh man, cringed hard when del Rio flew through the ropes after Christian moved. Heavy landing, and the Christian dives off the top. WAFG. Crowd is behind Christian here, he seems seriously over. How can you not want this guy to get a serious World Title run? High cross body, and man these two guys are telling an awesome story, especially with del Rio's 'time out' heel tactics.

Backstabber out of the corner is a gun counter. This is actually great. Back-and-forth offense, near falls, some pretty cool moves being pulled out as well. Del Rio hanging on and powering out of the attempted sunset flip was gun too, and Christian with the hurricanrana! Not quite as smooth as it would have been back in 2000. Wait, Christian has adopted the Spear? And now it looks like we're into the big move counter-after-counter phase. Exposed knee is such a good heel tactic for the sake of storytelling.

SPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE! But the shoulder is wrecked after being worked over all match, and now del Rio has the submission on it. Christian has nowhere to go, and no choice to tap. What a match!

I liked the pacing of it; in these types of things, its so easy to oversell the tiredness and slow down the pace too far, but this was believable without slowing down too much. I thought Christian oversold the shoulder injury after the spear, and should have been more of a 'collapsed after expending the energy while also clutching the shoulder' thing for the sake of verisimilitude, but who cares, really?

8/10. Seriously good match.

 

[sledger]

I always liked Christian but you said it yourself, the guy was just not a top bracket performer, especially not as a face. Glad he got a few runs with the World Heavyweight Championship though. Well-deserved.

 

[Dan]

Post-match in-ring interview is ITSTL. Stop trying to be ESPN, ****s. This promo should've been delivered on Raw the following night, not right now. Not to mention it just asks for someone to cash in the briefcase on you.

WWE and the National Guard ad. Yay, more pro wrestling nationalism! No wonder Cesaro can't get over, he has a funny accent and isn't from 'MURICA!

Ex-reality TV guy turned WWE Superstar The Miz interviews reality TV chick who wrestles more than any other non-wrestling personality Maria somethingorother. Can't say I care too much...and Fandango interrupts again to spare us the pain, but Miz and TV chick turn the tables by dancing themselves. Why is this happening? Also, why is Total Divas even a thing? Seriously.

WOAH BRET HART'S MUSIC! BRET HART'S HERE! HOLY ****!. Oh, it's Natalya. I remember being so excited when they said she was debuting, way back when, and then she did the square root of **** all and I was disappointed because I forgot how utterly pointless the WWE Divas division is. Switch to 2015 narrative, and hopefully these things are changing for good. Back to 2013, and I'm not expecting much from this next match, or segment, or whatever Nattie is doing. Wait, why does she have Brodus Clay's dancer chicks with her? Is this a Total Divas thing? This is just an extended ad for the show, isn't it? FFS.

You tease Bret Hart (ok, only to someone who doesn't really watch WWE), and you give me the Bellas. Great. Not quite sure why the Bellas have a 'faux 1950s' look going on with their ring gear, but whatever, I'm going to force myself to pay attention to the next two minutes that will probably end in a Bella win. Bella Twin's idea of good ring work is a kick followed by a backflip for basically no reason, and I'm going to pretend that Natalya's look of disgust is a shoot for the sake of my own sanity -- "I have Hart in my name and this is the quality of wrestling I'm involved in. FMD." Seriously? Slap wars? And now Cole calls that she's looking for the sharpshooter when she's not looking for it at all. Ring apron gets broken thanks to some interference, and that's about the most interesting thing happening in this match.

Ok I paused it and went to get lunch; incidentally, I opened up a wheel of brie. Such an interesting match, clearly. Sharpshooter counter sending Natalya into the turnbuckle looked nasty...so Brie goes back to a rest hold. Sharpshooter, Natalya wins, Bret Hart cries.

 

[Dan]

This Ryback backstage segment is bizarre.

Oh man, CM Punk-Paul Heyman must have been such a great combination for TV. Did it work as well as it should have in theory?

This feud seems more like Punk vs. Heyman, and Brock's purely secondary, which is kinda weird with what Brock did before and since. But Brock vs. Punk strikes me as something with immense potential, like an updated version of Kurt Angle vs. Brock. Both of these guys are still so over, and man WWE is so much poorer for Punk's absence -- could you imagine a Punk/Rollins feud ending in a 'Mania match for the title?

Lesnar's such a ****ing beast. Like Cole flipping out just because Lesnar was off his feet. This guy is so, so dominant. Holy ****, the way he just threw Punk over the Spanish Announce Table. That was insane. And Punk's back busted open by the TV monitor, and the facade of the table being broken in half. Belly-to-belly on the floor. Oh man. Seriously, the referee is asking Punk if he wants to submit from strikes. Lesnar is utterly ridiculous. When Punk's coming off the back of his 15ish month title reign and is clearly the underdog, you know the opponent is something special. In hindsight, why were people surprised that Lesnar beat the streak? He reminds me of what I imagine territory-era Andre to be like, in some ways -- you just can't touch him.

Lesnar catches him, Punk reverses with a HUGE head kick, and all of Punk's offence has changed from proper wrestling moves to "how the **** do I hurt this guy?" Punk can't get him up for the GTS, Lesnar gets him up for the F5 easily, Punk reverses into a head kick, gets into position for the GTS, and Brock reverses into the Kimura Lock. That looks legit painful. Now Punk counters into a couple of other submissions, and they tease the Lesnar submission. But as if Brock's gonna tap; the inevitable "power his way up and force a powerbomb" occurs, but Punk keeps it locked in. He does it again, but with a running powerbomb this time. That's a seriously awesome sequence of moves -- this is high-class pro wrestling. Good in ring stuff, and one hell of a story being told.

So. Many. Suplexes. I must admit, I do enjoy watching Brock in this type of match. Uh oh, Brock has a plan. This is dangerous. He's so slow, measured and deliberate in taking that steel chair. That's kinda terrifying. The spot of Punk diving into the chair is cool, and now he has the chair to even it up. Holy **** Lesnar caught the chair and Punk goes the low blow out of self-preservation. Seriously, Lesnar's deadly enough on his own, let alone with ****ing weapons.

Punk off the top rope with a chair. Yeah, that's what you have to do to keep Brock down. And he kicks out anyway. Countering the F5 by holding on to Heyman's tie is gun, and the GTS fall is broken up by Paul E. Now Heyman's in trouble with Brock down. ...and he pops back up to hit an F5, that Punk counters anyway. For another ultra-close 2 count. Anaconda Vice, but I can't see Lesnar submitting. Ever. And in comes Heyman with a chair. inb4 Brock recovers and saves him again. This Anaconda Vice on Heyman is going to cost Punk the match.

Yep, big chairshot to the back. Never take your eyes off Lesnar. Stacks of chairshots, F5 on the chair, Lesnar wins. Gotta admit, the finish was a bit of a let-down with how much Heyman was involved, but it's par for the course when Punk's beef is with him moreso than Brock. 8/10.​

 

[Dan]

The chants from the crowd afterwards show how over Punk is, though. WAG.

So Dolph Ziggler's teaming with Kaitlyn. Is there any female on the roster that Dolph hasn't been storyline-dating at some point? I think this is the first I've seen of Big E Langston as well, and he seems pretty mobile for a big dude thus far. Better than Bray Wyatt at the 'big guy who can actually move' thing. Also, anything involving AJ Lee tends to be quality. I know AJ Lee can wrestle, but I'm impressed with Kaitlyn so far -- looks a class above what the Bellas were doing earlier on.

Side note, mixed tags really take all of the drama out of the face looking for the hot tag.

Anyway, Ziggler seems really over with the crowd. He's been kinda wasted up until now IMO. Also, Big E is a boss. Get him up in the main event scene if he can talk. Nice to see Kaitlyn break up the pinfall, still being a partner despite the intergender-ness. And now AJ is doing the same by grabbing Ziggler's leg. Holy ****, that spear by Kaitlyn. What a boss. Holy ****, big lariat from Big E. What a boss x2.

Big E looks like he's going to end it, but Ziggler hits the Zig Zag for the win. That's about as good as you can expect from a short mixed tag, I guess. Move all of these guys onto bigger and better things! 6/10.