Imagine the hype if Flintoff produced the kind of knock Afridi just did.

[Richard]

What point are you trying to make?

Afridi made it at international level against a good opposition

And Tom made at at Club Third XI level against good opposition.

What you said was there were only 2 batsmen capable of making said scores... which is patently false, anyone can make such scores if things run their way.

 

[tooextracool]

84 off 60 compared to 77 off 35??

come on man


Many batsman in the world can make 84 off 60...

Especially when you consider how wayward the pakistan bowling attack was in that game. could never be bothered to rate that innings to be honest.

 

[deeps]

Just to add a bit more to the almost-extinct debate, make sure there's no confusion, and to weed out anyone who thinks otherwise:

Pietersen's batting in ODIs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Afridi's batting in ODIs

Without a doubt, Pietersen does it all the time. Flintoff destroy's a bowling attack about as often as Afridi does.

The difference being that when Afridi destroy's an attakc, he demolishes them.

 

[gunner]

we are used to these innings from afridi while from freddie we are not

 

[Prince EWS]

....destroy's....

...destroy's.....

[/Neil]

Yuck. In fact, double yuck.

{/Neil]

 

[Prince EWS]

we are used to these innings from afridi while from freddie we are not

Yeah, that's because Afridi tries to produce them regardless of the situation, even when it is ridiculous stupid to try and do so, wheras Flintoff bats to the situation and does the best thing for his team.

 

[tooextracool]

Flintoff is also a more than capable swing-bowler, yes, in both directions, with both conventional and reverse techniques used.

That, in case you missed it, was the biggest reason for his success in 2005.

because he swung the ball conventionally so very much in 2005? and equally we could assume that he forgot how to swing it in 2006. Fact for me is that Flintoff swung the ball conventionally in a whole 1 game in the Ashes(at the oval) in extremely overcast conditions and hasnt managed to do so since. As far as both ways are concerned, Flintoff has never bowled a conventional inswinger his whole life.
Its the same thing with reverse swing, Flintoff has only managed to do that consistently in one series.

 

[pasag]

Put your manners back in.

Hahaha.

 

[deeps]

And Tom made at at Club Third XI level against good opposition.

What you said was there were only 2 batsmen capable of making said scores... which is patently false, anyone can make such scores if things run their way.

yeh thanks man, if i bowled to Gilchrist, he'd be capable of it too. Do you want a cookie for being so smart?



I mean seriously come on, do you just pull anything out of ur..umm hat, to try and win an argument?

 

[tooextracool]

Hoggard in 2002 and 2003 (and in 2000 and 2001 when he played 1 Test each season) was decidedly hopeless, aside from the odd spell (fourth day at Bangalore, first-innings at Christchurch, third morning at The SCG). He also had occasions (the middle of 2002) where he was grossly flattered by his figures. Then in 2004, he became a better bowler. But even so, he's still never been more than a middling performer in Test-cricket, for a variety of reasons.

Hoggard was just as hopeless in 2004-05 as he was in 01/02 despite the billion times that he claimed that he could be the 'workhorse' and do an 'angus fraser' job for his country. The only reason it went unnoticed in 04/05 was because it was covered up by the likes of Harmison, Flintoff, Jones and even to an extent Giles. We saw this in the Ashes of 05 when he bowled considerably less than the rest of the bowlers until the conditions suited him. Of course in 01/02 when he was primarily the lead bowler in the attack, with only Caddick to support him, England were quite likely rubbish when the ball wasnt swinging and his place was therefore always in jeopardy.

 

[tooextracool]

Nonetheless, IMO the fact that there are few better than him at the current time only shows how poor standards have been of late. If you compare Hoggard to the great seamers of the 1990s, the Ambroses, Bishops, Walshes, Wasims, Waqars, Donalds, de Villiers', Pollocks, Frasers, McDermotts, Reiffels, McGraths, Flemings, Gillespies, etc. I don't think he rates too highly. Hoggard is not especially tall so does not have huge margin-for-error in length, sometimes misplaces his lines (though rarely as badly as the Harmisons, Joneses, Mahmoods, Plunketts and the like of this World), and despite having the tricks to take wickets on most pitches doesn't do so often enough to maintain a sub-27 average. Therefore, he's nothing, in my eyes, more than a pretty good bowler, and certainly has never been possessed of the talents of a Gough, Caddick, Cork, White or Flintoff. Or probably even a Tudor or Headley.

Hoggard's seam position is and always has been ordinary. Yes he can still swing the ball and yes his pace and height make him a lot less effective but if he could bowl with a perfectly upright seam(which at his pace is inexcusable anyways) a la simon jones he would be patently more effective.

 

[wpdavid]

The one where he made 3? I personally think the one at Edgbaston was better, but then again it was a damn fine 3.

It was.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[sideshowtim]

I still can't believe Afridi is only 26. He's been around for so, so long.

 

[GIMH]

I think it might've been created slightly before.

TBH, his posting patterns (time-wise) have seemed to match that of someone in England, as well as him commenting a lot about Sky's coverage.

Yeah, noticed that about him and Sky. Notably the Botham thread he started in the Ashes forum.

Is he getting banned?

 

[IndianByHeart]

An eighth DVD incorporating the words "Freddy" and "Fireworks" would be rushed off the production reels, by first thing monday, and he would be hailed as Sir Garfield Botham by the press.

Of course Afridi won't be given a similar degree of credit, for an innings which far exceeds anything Flintoff has ever done with the bat for England.

Afridi > Flintoff.

Flintoff who???

I would say,

Afridi>> Sobers,Imran,Botham, etc.

Hope his fans are happy now.

 

[PY]

Taking quoting yourself to whole new levels.

 

[Prince EWS]

Taking quoting yourself to whole new levels.

Nah, IndianByHeart has been a member for a while, and he clearly dislikes Afridi (that post was so obviously sarcastic that I'm quite shocked you didn't pick it up). I'd be highly surprised if he was BLE.

 

[pasag]

Lol at PY there

 

[PY]

*has access to IP addresses*

Nah, if they're not then I apologise but IBH is using the same IP as all the trolls.

 

[honestbharani]

Look, the thread starter should realize the obvious fact that no matter how well Flintoff or Afridi play, the GREATEST all rounder in the world IS, WAS and ALWAYS will be the irrepressible AA. He would have smashed 80 off 24 and taken 7/22 today, if he weren't injured. It is high time people realize these facts.











I should be a contributing member of the AAAS, you know........