Imagine the hype if Flintoff produced the kind of knock Afridi just did.

[Pup Clarke]

Catch the Ashes of 2005? Flintoff certainly swung the ball both ways..

Since then though,he hardly swings it both ways.He can in spells swing it but he is not primarily a swing bowler.He is a seam bowler who gets movement of the pitch and not that much in the air.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Quite an under-rated bowler though IMO - his bowling has been over-shadowed by his over-rated batting.

Yeah.whenever I have watched him he seems to be a more than decent leg spinner especially in one day cricket where are changes of pace cause problems.He was actually very accurate with his leg breaks today and spun the ball quite a bit (something I haven't seen him do before)

 

[vic_orthdox]

Meh, name one swing bowler in world cricket today.

Outside of Hoggard, Flintoff does it about as much as anyone else. And that's saying something.

 

[TT Boy]

An eighth DVD incorporating the words "Freddy" and "Fireworks" would be rushed off the production reels, by first thing monday, and he would be hailed as Sir Garfield Botham by the press.

Of course Afridi won't be given a similar degree of credit, for an innings which far exceeds anything Flintoff has ever done with the bat for England.

Afridi > Flintoff.

Any questions?

Fair point.

Also I wonder if the proposed Freddie’s Ashes DVD or the Ashes tour diary will still come out (anyone)? I know Ali Cook’s book was nixed after the third test.

 

[Prince EWS]

Meh, name one swing bowler in world cricket today.

Matthew Hoggard, Anthony Ireland, Syed Rasel, James Anderson, Jon Lewis, Pedro Collins, Ben Hilfenhaus, Shaun Tait, Charl Langeveldt, Sreesanth, Chaminda Vaas, Shane Bond, Chris Martin...

There's lots more too but I've given up trying to think of them as I'm sure I've made my point.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Meh, name one swing bowler in world cricket today.

Outside of Hoggard, Flintoff does it about as much as anyone else. And that's saying something.

Eh,did you see Bond in the last game.He was swinging it in quite alarmingly.Chris Martin is another swing bowler and the young pakistani bowler who played in the U-19 WC swung it absolute miles.Their is a video of it on the thread "Cricket on Youtube" to prove how much he swings it.Other swing bowlers include Vaas,Lee and Pathan has been know to swing it on occasions.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Jon Lewis

You can hardly call him a swing bowler?

 

[Richard]

Excuse me,Flintoff is a seam bowler who when I have seen him bowl has never "swung it both ways".Have you seen him bowl in the last couple of years?.He's a bowler who hits the pitch hard.Hoggard is a perfect example of a swing bowler in overcast conditions.

Flintoff is also a more than capable swing-bowler, yes, in both directions, with both conventional and reverse techniques used.

That, in case you missed it, was the biggest reason for his success in 2005.

 

[Prince EWS]

You can hardly call him a swing bowler?

Granted he's more of a cut/seam bowler most of the time, but I have seen him swing the bowl quite a bit in helpful conditions. He doesn't always try to swing it because often conditions do not suit, but when they do, I've seen him swing the ball quite appreciably.

EDIT: Also, could you please learn to use the quote function properly? Bad quoting begets more bad quoting when I press the quote button and it's happened a few times now.
Not having a go at you or anything, but it'd be good if you could fix that up in future.

 

[Richard]

Matthew Hoggard, Anthony Ireland, Syed Rasel, James Anderson, Jon Lewis, Pedro Collins, Ben Hilfenhaus, Shaun Tait, Charl Langeveldt, Sreesanth, Chaminda Vaas, Shane Bond, Chris Martin...

There's lots more too but I've given up trying to think of them as I'm sure I've made my point.

Discounting those from substandard teams (Ireland, Syed), and those who are non-regulars (Anderson, Lewis, Hilfenhaus, Tait, Langeveldt, Sreesanth, Bond, Collins - the latter three not through the paucity of their bowling), that's 3 bowlers, 1 of whom (Martin) is decidedly on the rubbish side of average, 1 (Hoggard) who was utterly hopeless for ages and who I struggle to remember the last time (The Wanderers in January 2005, probably) he produced a devestating spell with primary use of conventional swing in stereotypical "swinging" conditions.

Then you have Vaas, who is and always has been the most hopelessly inconsistent bowler ever. Round corners one day, gun-barrel the next.

 

[Richard]

Since then though,he hardly swings it both ways.He can in spells swing it but he is not primarily a swing bowler.He is a seam bowler who gets movement of the pitch and not that much in the air.

And it's no coincidence that he hasn't given off that air of magic-ball-coming-up since. He still bowled perfectly acceptibly in 2005\06 and at times in 2006, but he certainly hasn't managed to recapture that aura of 2005 when you felt he could take a wicket with his next ball every single time he had it in his hand.

 

[Prince EWS]

Discounting those from substandard teams (Ireland, Syed), and those who are non-regulars (Anderson, Lewis, Hilfenhaus, Tait, Langeveldt, Sreesanth, Bond, Collins - the latter three not through the paucity of their bowling), that's 3 bowlers, 1 of whom (Martin) is decidedly on the rubbish side of average, 1 (Hoggard) who was utterly hopeless for ages and who I struggle to remember the last time (The Wanderers in January 2005, probably) he produced a devestating spell with primary use of conventional swing in stereotypical "swinging" conditions.

Then you have Vaas, who is and always has been the most hopelessly inconsistent bowler ever. Round corners one day, gun-barrel the next.

I could think of more if I really tried to be honest. And my point wasn't about the quality of swing bowlers in world cricket - but rather just the fact that they did exist. More a quanity argument.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Then you have Vaas, who is and always has been the most hopelessly inconsistent bowler ever. .

I hope that was sarcastic....

 

[Prince EWS]

I hope that was sarcastic....

No, he's right. While his accuracy generally holds consistently, Vaas's swing and hence penetration is extremely inconsistent. He seems to be fairly consistent at home, but struggles to swing the ball consistently abroad.

 

[Pup Clarke]

(Hoggard) who was utterly hopeless for ages and who I struggle to remember the last time (The Wanderers in January 2005, probably) he produced a devestating spell with primary use of conventional swing in stereotypical "swinging" conditions.

When the hell was Hoggard "utterly hopeless" for ages.He's been England's most consistent bowler in the last 2 years and he hasn't had many periods in his England career where he has looked way out of his depth.And just because he doesn't get a hatful of wickets in helpful conditions makes him an ineffective swing bowler.

 

[Pup Clarke]

No, he's right. While his accuracy generally holds consistently, Vaas's swing and hence penetration is extremely inconsistent. He seems to be fairly consistent at home, but struggles to swing the ball consistently abroad.

What,am I really hearing this.Are you talking about Vaas now or through his whole career because you surely couldn't be talking about his career in general.The man has over 300 test wickets and he still doesn't get any praise.One of the most underrated bowlers in the last decade IMO.

 

[Richard]

Don't vindicate it.

Ah, been so long since I've seen that old friend.

............

 

[Pup Clarke]

Then you have Vaas, who is and always has been the most hopelessly inconsistent bowler ever. Round corners one day, gun-barrel the next.

The most stupid and disrespectful post ever on CW?.

 

[Richard]

What,am I really hearing this.Are you talking about Vaas now or through his whole career because you surely couldn't be talking about his career in general.The man has over 300 test wickets and he still doesn't get any praise.Oneof the most underrated bowlers in the last decade IMO.

You'll not find a bigger Vaas fan than me. At his best (though that may now be behind him) I felt there was virtually no-one capable of so many wicket-taking tricks - and all usually with an excellent economy-rate to boot.

Sadly, he had a tendency to follow a series where he'd take 15 wickets at 15 with one where he'd take 2 or 3 at 100 - which was a crying shame.

 

[vic_orthdox]

The most stupid and disrespectful post ever on CW?.

In your whole 29 days of being here?

Put your manners back in.