Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
He was hardly the worst, though.
Certainly a class above the Hameeds and Faisal Iqbals of this World...
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Certainly a class above the Hameeds and Faisal Iqbals of this World...
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Granted, Hameed is a class above the Faisal Iqbals of the world.
shortpitched713
International Captain
3 ODIs for a guy who is clearly more talented than most of the players you've brought in is enough? Remember, this is when they brought in the likes of Prior, Blackwell, Plunkett, etc.
Its indicative of why England have struggled in ODIs.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Have no idea what your talking about. Probably forgot about it, tbh.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
3 chances. Not 3 ODIs. He's played 18 ODIs in 3 different spells (2001-2001\02, 2002\03 and 2005\06) and after doing well in his first 2 games has averaged 13.60 since...
I'd say that's poor enough to merit being dropped each time. Yes, Prior was every bit as bad (and Blackwell, given that he was initially picked because someone thought he could bat, qualifies to be even worse) but that just shows how many stupid decisions England selectors really are capable of, given that each was averaging in the low 20s in domestic cricket at the time he was picked for international.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Hardly comparable since Prior's selection in squads is because of his keeping, and the other 2 are because of bowling.
Shah neither keeps nor bowls.
Beleg
International Regular
And yet Ejaz was the guy who average over 47 from 14 matches against Australia (scored six hundreds against them, three IN Aus) and over 50 from five matches against WI...
His average in Pakistan was only 36 though.
Edit: He was pretty consistently excellent between 94-99. Average in the mid-forties.
Strange.
His average in Pakistan was only 36 though.
Edit: He was pretty consistently excellent between 94-99. Average in the mid-forties.
Strange.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Prior was picked because they thought he could bat IMO... otherwise him and Jones wouldn't have been in together.
And Blackwell was certainly initially selected for batting more than for bowling - because he happened to have scored a few runs in 2 televised games, and Dermot Reeve decided to get on the selectors' case about him.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
If Prior was selected because of his keeping, the English selection policies are even worse than I thought, having picked two keepers in the one XI when neither of them could command their position based on their batting.
I'm fairly sure Prior was selected based on his batting, otherwise he wouldn't have played in the same matches as Jones.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Initially yes. But there's little doubt that his ongoing selection was based on his good bowling performances..Richard said:
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah, I'd agree with that. When he first came in the side, he occupied the #6 slot IIRC, and was even given a shot at #3 from time to time. His retainment though, and especially his recalls to the side, were based on his bowling. And from what I've seen, he's actually a pretty good one day spinner... any reason why his List A bowling record is so ordinary? His tea-cup sized home ground (which has inflated his first class and List A batting records, I'd imagine) perhaps?
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
As I've said before - his record for Derbyshire (3rd-biggest playing-area in the country) is almost as bad.
Makes no sense whatsoever to me why he's been so economical in ODIs (ditto Dalrymple) and I'm pretty certain that if he ever plays again he'll go for some.
Makes no sense whatsoever to me why he's been so economical in ODIs (ditto Dalrymple) and I'm pretty certain that if he ever plays again he'll go for some.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
The thing is though, I have seen him bowl several times, and he doesn't take me as someone who is lucky to get the returns he is getting (unlike Yardy who bowls absolute trash - although the selectors thankfully identified this before waiting for his ridiculous record to blow out). He actually seems to be a pretty good bowler at one day level, and I don't imagine him doing worse than Giles, a genuine ODI spinner, if the spot was up for grabs between them (and I'm not just under-rating Giles here because that's the "cool" thing to do at the moment - I acknowlegde that Giles has been a very effective one day bowler during his career, particularly of late).
How long ago did he play for Derbyshire? It's feasible that he has simply improved his bowling since then and the grounds he plays on haven't allowed his progress to be shown. Or perhaps the role he is asked to play for England is different to the one he is asked to play for his county..
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
He moved to Somerset for the 2001 season (with a nothing batting record in either game-form, which has improved dramatically since).
Yardy has simply been fortunate with circumstance. His first 2 games were on 2 of the slowest, most turning pitches you'll ever see in England. Then he played 2 games against Ind and Aus where the pitches were tricky and so was the smallish run-chase, so he got played-out. I don't doubt he'll be back, though - that's just the nature of English ODI selections. I thought we'd seen the last of James Kirtley in 2003... but then he was recalled for 2003\04... ahead of first Gough then Johnson, both of whom had infinately better cases. Once Yardy came-up against a batting-line-up who went after him on a half-decent wicket, he went for plenty.
As for Blackwell, his situation isn't incredibly dissimilar. He was perfectly OK in the VBS of 2002\03 but his best 2 performances came on the two worst batting surfaces (SCG opening game, Adelaide in the Anderson-10-12-1 match) and he somehow got 2 wickets in 3 overs in another game. Then his next serious ODI series where he bowled at all was in Pakistan where he had 2 reasonable games followed by 2 poor ones, then got another woeful batting surface in the last game and took 10-29-3. And in India the pitches were mostly bowler-friendly too.
Giles' record could IMO quite easily be worse, too - ER of 4.45-an-over-ish, and has not played that much (53 games).
Yardy has simply been fortunate with circumstance. His first 2 games were on 2 of the slowest, most turning pitches you'll ever see in England. Then he played 2 games against Ind and Aus where the pitches were tricky and so was the smallish run-chase, so he got played-out. I don't doubt he'll be back, though - that's just the nature of English ODI selections. I thought we'd seen the last of James Kirtley in 2003... but then he was recalled for 2003\04... ahead of first Gough then Johnson, both of whom had infinately better cases. Once Yardy came-up against a batting-line-up who went after him on a half-decent wicket, he went for plenty.
As for Blackwell, his situation isn't incredibly dissimilar. He was perfectly OK in the VBS of 2002\03 but his best 2 performances came on the two worst batting surfaces (SCG opening game, Adelaide in the Anderson-10-12-1 match) and he somehow got 2 wickets in 3 overs in another game. Then his next serious ODI series where he bowled at all was in Pakistan where he had 2 reasonable games followed by 2 poor ones, then got another woeful batting surface in the last game and took 10-29-3. And in India the pitches were mostly bowler-friendly too.
Giles' record could IMO quite easily be worse, too - ER of 4.45-an-over-ish, and has not played that much (53 games).
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
Chris Drum. Until I checked his profile, I could barely remember him playing a test, just smattering of one-dayers and I have no idea what happened to him when he retired.
