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Yousuf or Ponting?
- Thread starter PhoenixFire
- Start date
jack_sparrow
U19 Debutant
at the moment, for what its worth as of RIGHT THIS SECOND?
youhana. yes thats his name.
he made well in a pressured situation and had nothing going for the team, while ponting had nothing to lose in his current innings.
youhana. yes thats his name.
he made well in a pressured situation and had nothing going for the team, while ponting had nothing to lose in his current innings.
nightprowler10
Global Moderator
That's the second time he's said that his name is Youhana. WTF?
shortpitched713
International Captain
Well, the only place that Yousef truly struggles in that badly is South Africa, and as pointed out he has only played three Tests there putting him in a similar boat as Ponting in India. Really, I think the whole Yousef being a flat-track bully thing was always overrated. If you consider Yousef a flat track bully, then almost all the batsmen in the world would be flat track bullies as few are able to excel in all conditions. Not saying that Yousef is better than Ponting throughout his career, because obviously Ponting has scored more at a better average, but I think that on current form they are quite close, and both will probably be similar quality batsmen in the next few years. Ponting would still be higher on my all-time list though, without a doubt.Matt79 said:
shortpitched713
International Captain
It deals with their poor record in India and South Africa respectively. You make excuse for Ponting's poor performance in India, and I think Yousef's poor performance in South Africa is equally a use of selective statistics. I have no doubt that Yousef will perform in his next tour of South Africa, as I have no doubt that Ponting will set the record straight in India.
alternative
Cricket Web Content Updater
Ponting is just a gun.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
WTF? I didn't make excuses or selectively use stats for Ponting's record in India - I said that he'd had one poor tour there in 2001, and missed the 2004 tour with injury - but that it would seem a safe bet that he'd make runs if he played there in the near future. I doubt you'd find anyone who would argue that Ponting isn't a much better batsman in 2006 than he was in 2001, so I don't think that his 2001 tour proves much about how good a batsman he is. If that's making excuses, then whatever...shortpitched713 said:
I'm not criticising Yousuf, or saying that his record in South Africa has any more bearing on how good I consider him to be than Ponting's record in India. In fact I've said nothing about Yousuf and South Africa, so I don't get why you're directing your comments to me. Every batsman who plays for any length of time has had a poor series somewhere in their record - unless your Bradman - and even he had a poor series statistically, by his standards, during bodyline. What does that prove? Not much IMO.
Does Federer and Sampras' lack of success in the French open mean they are the two best tennis players of recent years? Not in my book. Same story with Ponting in India (except he's had less opportunities than Sampras did at Roland Garros) or Yousuf in South Africa.
moyodrives
Cricket Spectator
Before the England tour this summer, Yousuf averaged around 20 in England, but he improved that record significantly by scoring over 600 runs at an average of 90 odd. I can only remember Dravid having a similar series like that in England. With the form he's in, he can easily improve his poor record in South Africa as well.
nightprowler10
Global Moderator
Huge difference between 'Can' and 'Will'. I hope he does though.
jack_sparrow
U19 Debutant
its cute that you're counting.nightprowler10 said:
youhana rocks.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Totally agree with you there. Wasn't directing my semi-rant at you, was just pointing out how it was unfair that Yousef is characterized by his average in South Africa, just like it is unfair that Ponting would be characterized by his average in SA, don't think you said anything wrong really.Matt79 said:
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Well Ponting is not the strongest player of spin, so thats partly to do with it. So playing good spinners on a spinners wicket might be an issue. And unlike SL, you have two quality spinners from both ends on a pitch tailor made for them.
With that said, he's masked that weakness amazingly well since he last had a bat in a test match in India, so much so that I do think if he toured India now he'd do well, even against the spinners. Maybe not his ridiculous 70+ average, but a more than respectable 40+ would not be out of the question IMO.
This is obviously just conjecture, but I rate Ponting highly. He really is a treat to watch.
With that said, he's masked that weakness amazingly well since he last had a bat in a test match in India, so much so that I do think if he toured India now he'd do well, even against the spinners. Maybe not his ridiculous 70+ average, but a more than respectable 40+ would not be out of the question IMO.
This is obviously just conjecture, but I rate Ponting highly. He really is a treat to watch.
C_C
International Captain
Err, This is Ponting's record in India :
96/97: 1/2__0__27__13.50__0__0
97/98: 3/5__0__105__21.00__0_1
00/01: 3/5__0__17__3.40__0__0
04/05: 1/2__0__23__11.50__0__0
Thats 8 matches in India and he's been horrible. I see no reason why Ponting is likely to 'correct' this the next time he plays in India - unless India doesnt have any decent spinner in the team.
Problem with Ponting is that he cannot read spinners from their hands. He reads them off the pitch or when he is in particularly roaring form, in the air- this can be covered up in Sri Lanka because while the pitches turn more in SL in general, its much much slower. In India, on most pitches, variable bounce from spinners come into the equation from third day onwards. If you can't read spinners off the hand, you are toast- which is what Ponting is. This is the reason why Ponting manages to hang on and survive for some runs in SL but he cant buy a run in India. I dont see Ponting doing well in the future either- unless ofcourse, he learns how to read a spinner off his hand rather than off the pitch.Maybe he can ask Lara or Tendy for a tip or two on how to read spinners from their hands. This isnt speculation either- Ponting is usually late to get into position against spinners compared to Lara or Tendulkar- because while all they gotto determine is the line and length (they know which way its gonna spin 99.999% of the time before the ball's left the spinner's hand) , Ponting has to wait that extra bit to see which way it'll spin and react.
On Indian pitches, where on the 4th/5th day dustbowls the ball is shooting or spitting, Ponting is about as safe a bet as Walsh with the bat is. He simply doesnt have enough time to determine line, length AND spin after the ball has left the spinner's hand, on a pitch that's likely to hurry the ball after its pitched or the bounce is unpredictable. Ponting knows this too- which is why his entire demeanour batting in India is akin to a man running scared and unsure as if they'r making their debut against the vaunted four-prong.
And until Ponting corrects his record in India ( which isnt just making runs-but runs against a decent Indian attack), he will always be below Tendy,Lara and Dravid- regardless of what his statistics are.
For no 'alltime great' batsman has such a pathetic record in a major country ( Sobers averages pretty poorly in NZ but NZ was hardly a major team in Sober's time-more like what Zimbabwe were in the 90s-just a notch or two above really poor) and you cannot be considered truely great if you have such a major and obvious chink in your armor.
This is precisely the same reason Ponting doesnt figure in my top 10 batsmen of alltime and regardless of how many centuries or runs he ends up with, he wont be there unless he can average decently in India.
In this discussion's context, i'd agree that Ponting is easily ahead of Youhana. But the same benchmark also applies to Youhana and to Kallis - unless they improve their record against AUS ( and in Youhana's case, also RSA), they aint in the same bracket as Dravid-Tendy-Lara.
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