Yousuf or Ponting?

[Craig]

Like I asked before why is so important that Ponting scores in India? Since when did it become anything out of the ordinary?

 

[C_C]

Like I asked before why is so important that Ponting scores in India? Since when did it become anything out of the ordinary?

It never was ordinary- scoring runs in India against quality spinners have always been the supreme test of your skills against spin and every 'great' batsman has atleast a half-decent record in India, not a record that even a tailender wouldnt be comfortable with. Even today, facing Kumble (and if Harbhajan is around,him too) on a 4th-5th day pitch in India is harder than facing Warne or Murali. He has to get atleast half-decent in India before i consider him for alltime greatness-for without that, he isnt entering my top 10 or even top 15 batsmen of alltime, even if he finishes his career with 15K test runs and 50 centuries.
For claims to alltime greatness, you must have atleast a decent record in India, Australia, South Africa, England and West Indies, not to mention, against the best attacks of your time.
You cannot be up for alltime greatness if you got such a massive chink in your armor.

 

[Craig]

Well Sir Garry Sobers was rubbish in New Zealand on often slower, seaming wickets, although that was a mental thing would that make him less of a player?

And would the same apply for Don Bradman?

 

[C_C]

Well Sir Garry Sobers was rubbish in New Zealand on often slower, seaming wickets, although that was a mental thing would that make him less of a player?

And would the same apply for Don Bradman?

No, because like i said, NZ in Sober's days wernt a strong team at all- more like Zimbabwe in the 90s and as when it comes to success, the benchmark is against the best of the best, not just anybody anywhere. Ponting has been thoroughly embarassed in India- the 'best of the best' when it comes to wheeling out the most consistently demanding matches against spin.
No great batsman is considered truely great if they have a poor record in Australia- case in point : Youhana. Reason is that facing this AUstralia team in Australia is the biggest test of your guts, technical finesse and ability. However, no great batsman is considered great either if they utterly bomb out in India- because that is the greatest test of a batsman against spin.
If we are to point out Youhana's record in Australia and claim that he isnt 'the best of the best' ( which i happen to agree with btw), the same standards must be applied to Ponting in India.

 

[magsi23]

A) Ponting is not Indian, last time I checked.
B) Considering I only rate two Indian batsman, and one Indian bowler right now as being any good, your point is meaningless.

Over their careers:

1. Sachin
2. Lara
3. Ponting
4. Dravid
5. Kallis
6. Gilchrist
7. Inzamam
8. Hayden

Folks like Yousuf and Sehwag would come in after. Yousuf ahead of Sehwag though.

comparing sehwag with yousuf is laughable. yousuf is far better batsmen than sehwag and more consistent

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Ricky Ponting has been prolific for longer. Simple as. No contest really.

 

[Langeveldt]

Yousuf, because Ponting is an Aussie..

In all seriousness, I can't make the call really.. Yousuf, because he is a better player of spin?

 

[Johnners]

Ponting by miles IMO.

I heard an interesting stat on the ABC today when Skull was talking about 4th innings averages. Ponting averages 60 in the 4th innings of a test match, a stat that IMO shows his true class.

 

[social]

Ponting's record in India is definitely a blight.

However, Yousuf, no matter how talented, has a history of failing on pitches that offer seam bowlers' assistance, wherever they might occur.

Case in point was Old Trafford this year.

Yousuf, in the midst of a phenomenal spell of form, was hit on the gloves early by Mahmood.

From that point on, he backed away and gave the slips catching practice for the entire game.

I've seen him do it too many times to rank him anything other than very good in conditions that suit him

Ponting, on the other hand, is by far the best player in the world at present and his record in India, in light of how he treats spinners the world over, should be seen as nothing more than an anomaly.

 

[Matt79]

It also just isn't very relevant to how good he is today. In 1996 he was a fringe player and got one test, where he failed. In 1998 and 2001 he played three tests each time and was bad, but honestly that was 7 and 5 years ago, and he's obviously improved a great deal in the intervening period. In 2004 he was injured, came back for the last test on that... interesting pitch, and like everyone else struggled.

 

[silentstriker]

comparing sehwag with yousuf is laughable. yousuf is far better batsmen than sehwag and more consistent

Yea, thats why I said Yousuf ahead of Sehwag.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Please could you people read the original post? The question was, ON CURRENT FORM who is more prolific (or words to that affect), not who is the better overall.

 

[silentstriker]

Right, so over their careers, I would rate Ponting higher.

 

[nightprowler10]

Right, so over their careers, I would rate Ponting higher.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Right, so over their careers, I would rate Ponting higher.

So predictable......

 

[C_C]

Ponting, on the other hand, is by far the best player in the world at present and his record in India, in light of how he treats spinners the world over, should be seen as nothing more than an anomaly.

Err no.
That is like saying we should treat Yousuf's allergy to good seaming pitches as nothing more than anomaly. Ponting's allergy to crumbling pitches may have less impact on his average than Yousuf's ( afterall, you hardly ever see a crumbler outside of India) but its no less damning in the stakes- since a great batsman is supposed to have competency on all surfaces. Until Ponting rectifies that, he will be the Aussie Yousuf- just a better version going by their achievements so far.

 

[Benny2k1]

1.Lara
2.Sachin
3.Dravid
4.Ponting
5.Yousuf
6.Kallis
7.Hayden
8.Hussey
9.Inzi
10.Jayasuria

 

[silentstriker]

Jayasurya, yet no Gilchrist? Hussey ahead of Inzy already?

 

[mohammad16]

im pakistani and ponting is well ahead of yousuf

evne though yousuf has been pilling upon the runs, inzi still is pakistans best player

yousuf has lost his attacking insticnts that he had in the middle part of his career, he really could up the run rate even in test matches

now he seems less keen to attack and although he is scoring alot of runs, his runs are having alot less impact then the ones ponting scores

anyways heres my list of the best in the world today

lara
ponting
tendulkar
dravid
inzi
kallis
peiterson
yousuf
gilchrist

 

[Beleg]

shrugs.

Lara
Dravid
Tendulkar
Ponting
inzy
Kallis
gilchrist


the rest