Who is a better batsman Martyn or Chanderpaul?

[roseboy64]

What that Martyn is comfortably a better player than SRT?

Is there any doubt about it?

Yes there is doubt.

 

[viktor]

Exactly thats the reason why he is better than Tendulkar currently, his CURRENT FORM

Sure, but if you care to read back to my original post, I was just trying to say that Martyn isn't that far ahead of Sachin.To say he is comfortably ahead is IMO an "outrageous" comment.

 

[marc71178]

Anyway, I'm not suggesting Kallis or Inzamam are better than Tendulkar, but they are certainly better than him right now.

As are a lot of players - which is my point.

 

[viktor]

Martyn would be challenging for a place in a World XI IMO.

SRT would be around the 4th choice team.

The choice of a world team is a very subjective thing. if you were to only look at stats, SRT hasn't done too badly in 2004 or 2003. martyn has had a very poor 2003 and a terrific 2004. infact you could make a case for martyn being very inconsistent while sachin at his very worst (2003-4) has still not been too bad, consistency-wise. hence srt would still make my team ahead of martyn, irrespective of current form.

 

[King_Ponting]

Tendulkar had the 2nd best batting average for tests in 2004

In 2005 he is 22nd on the list.

gong on those figure punter looks good for over 1000 runs this calendar year.

 

[SpeedKing]

Oh come on yo guys, the gap isn't that big between Martyn and Chanderpaul. Martyn had a special year [Strauss had a special year], but that doesn't make them in the same category as Lara/Tendulkar/Dravid/Kallis??

I feel that these two are so similar i cannot separate them, but because Chanderpaul has not been getting as much votes as i think he should have i will say he is probably better. These two are in that category of not quite genius but consistently brilliant category with the likes of Inzi/Youhana/Thorpe/Ponting/Langer/Gilchrist/ etc [i have missed out on quite a few here]

If someone had never ever watched these two play and didn't know anything about them, and had the misfortune of coming across this thread, they could be forgiven for thinking Martyn is an all time great and chanderpaul is a pretender with a dodgy technique. Of course Martyn is a very good world class bat and fully merits his position in the Aussie lineup but Chanderpaul is also extremely talented [if not equally] and goes about his job with the same effectiveness. Nothing between them really, for mine.

 

[marc71178]

infact you could make a case for martyn being very inconsistent while sachin at his very worst (2003-4) has still not been too bad, consistency-wise.

So a period when Tendulkar got out for less than 20 on more than half the times he batted isn't too bad consistency-wise?!

 

[King_Ponting]

Oh come on yo guys, the gap isn't that big between Martyn and Chanderpaul. Martyn had a special year [Strauss had a special year], but that doesn't make them in the same category as Lara/Tendulkar/Dravid/Kallis??

I feel that these two are so similar i cannot separate them, but because Chanderpaul has not been getting as much votes as i think he should have i will say he is probably better. These two are in that category of not quite genius but consistently brilliant category with the likes of Inzi/Youhana/Thorpe/Ponting/Langer/Gilchrist/ etc [i have missed out on quite a few here]

If someone had never ever watched these two play and didn't know anything about them, and had the misfortune of coming across this thread, they could be forgiven for thinking Martyn is an all time great and chanderpaul is a pretender with a dodgy technique. Of course Martyn is a very good world class bat and fully merits his position in the Aussie lineup but Chanderpaul is also extremely talented [if not equally] and goes about his job with the same effectiveness. Nothing between them really, for mine.

Why is ponting not in the lara/tendulkar/dravidkallis bracket?

 

[C_C]

he is in that bracket...but barely..... he has a glaring weakness unlike the other three- spin on spinning wickets....neither has lara,tendy or dravid failed glaringly in a particular nation like Ponting has....
Ponting averages 12 in IND( lowest ave. in any country he's played in)....Lara's worst ave. is in Pakistan(22), Tendy's in Zimbabwe (40) and Dravid's is in South Africa(42).

Add to the fact that Ponting has faced inferior bowling attacks in his career and his performance is in the same region as Lara-Tendy-Dravid.

Kallis is in a bracket below Ponting.

 

[viktor]

So a period when Tendulkar got out for less than 20 on more than half the times he batted isn't too bad consistency-wise?!

I'll grant you that but the point I am trying to make is martyn is only slightly ahead of srt, that too only because of his performances in the last one year.

 

[Sanz]

You do realise that Dravid is TEC's favourite player, don't you? You really need to get off your "everyone is biased but me" high horse. I've never seen anybody on this forum stack as much lavish praise on Dravid as TEC has, and to suggest he dislikes him because of some sort of bias is utterly ridiculous.

And Do you realize that how TEC posted incorrect figures to prove his point ? I dont believe Dravid is his fav. player, because if anyone has followed Dravid's career would never make an stupid statement that Dravid didn't make a century for 2 years between mid 2000 and early 2002 (which is not even 2 years, but for TEC it is) simply because some of Dravid's best knock came during that period. That Dravid is his fav. player is a LIE (and a mask he uses to cover his biasness) just like the the lie posted about RD going centuryless for 2 years and Martyn going centuryless for 1 year.

If Martyn is a better player, then why dont you back it up with stats rather than just posting nonensical stuff ?

How many times do people have to say that they are talking about form and not career stats? Tendulkar over the last couple of years has been an average to good batsman, and nothing more. Before that, he was brilliant, and he is obviously an all-time great. Steve Waugh was an all-time great, and between around 95 and 2000 or so (or even 89 to 2000) he excelled and was one of three batsmen who stood head-and-shoulders above everyone else in the 90s (along with Lara and Tendulkar), but in the last couple of years of his career was an average to good batsman, and neither of them were among the top 4 or 5 batsmen in the world in their slumps, regardless of how good they were beforehand.

Waugh is called an alltime great after playing countless knocks in crunch situations, Martyn has how many ? One, two ?? How many double centuries Martyn has scored so far ? If you want to put him next to Waugh then wait till he shows SRW's consistency. In last two years (from 28/6/03 till today) If Tendulkar has been an average batsman then how come he averages 55.12 (as compared to Martyn's 57.26) despite suffering from a severe injury, being at the receiving end of poor umpiring decisions in atleast 4-5 occasions.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

And Do you realize that how TEC posted incorrect figures to prove his point ? I dont believe Dravid is his fav. player, because if anyone has followed Dravid's career would never make an stupid statement that Dravid didn't make a century for 2 years between mid 2000 and early 2002 (which is not even 2 years, but for TEC it is) simply because some of Dravid's best knock came during that period. That Dravid is his fav. player is a LIE (and a mask he uses to cover his biasness) just like the the lie posted about RD going centuryless for 2 years and Martyn going centuryless for 1 year.

Err, yeah. It's all a BIIIIG conspiricy... TEC secretly hates all Indian players and just spends all his time on the forum going on and on about how great Dravid is to hide that fact from perceptive people like you. Well done, Sanz. Have you considered a job at Scotland Yard?

If Martyn is a better player, then why dont you back it up with stats rather than just posting nonensical stuff ?

Martyn a better player than who? Dravid? He's not.

Waugh is called an alltime great after playing countless knocks in crunch situations, Martyn has how many ? One, two ?? How many double centuries Martyn has scored so far ? If you want to put him next to Waugh then wait till he shows SRW's consistency.

For heaven's sake, I'm NOT putting him next to Waugh! Waugh, Tendulkar and Lara are all-time greats, and Martyn at this particular point in time is not, as he has not done enough to prove himself as such. However, as things stand, Tendulkar is not as good as he was throughout the 90s, and does not warrant selection in a world XI currently, while Martyn is fairly close, missing out by one or two spots. The reason I brought up Waugh, is because he similarly was a dominant, brilliant batsman from 1989 through to 2000 or so, after which he was still good, and warranted his spot in the Australian team, but he was not good enough to make a World XI as his performances tailed off somewhat. This is a similar situation to Tendulkar right now. The thing that remains to be seen is whether or not Tendulkar can regain his previous high standards.

In last two years (from 28/6/03 till today) If Tendulkar has been an average batsman then how come he averages 55.12 (as compared to Martyn's 57.26) despite suffering from a severe injury, being at the receiving end of poor umpiring decisions in atleast 4-5 occasions.

The umpiring decisions are neither here nor there, as every player gets those from time to time. The injury is a point, but if he was fit enough to play his performances can surely be taken into account. If it's just his injury that is holding him back, I'm sure he will show it when he comes back later in the year. Regarding his average, it is inflated by three large scores. Yes, those knocks were very good and proved that he is still a dangerous batsman (even if one of them was against Bangladesh and the other two on very flat wickets), but what is of more concern is his consistent failures in his other innings. If you examine his total performances in the period (rather than just his overall average), you will see the point myself and others are trying to make, which is that the consistency which was the hallmark of Tendulkar at his best is no longer there, and instead he has three great knocks, some moderate totals and a whole heap of failures in recent times, with the majority of his innings falling short of 20. Clearly this is a point of concern for any fan of Tendulkar, and he looks a shadow of his former self currently.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

the situations under which martyn scored his runs last year was more difficult than Chanderpaul without doubt.

How so? The fact that the West Indies has gone on to lose so many Tests with Chanderpaul being such a solid figure in batting collapses makes me wonder. Are you saying that Chanderpaul's runs don't come at crucial stages?

Damien Martyn resides in a powerhouse team. Chanderpaul is in a team where monstrous individual efforts can't inspire victory and yet there is a constant desire for victory. If that's not a difficult circumstance, then what is? Practically everytime Chanderpaul walks to the crease he goes with the mentality that "I can't fail". Simple as that really. He can't go out thinking, "well if I do fail, the bowlers will take us back into the match" or "Gilly'll pick us up". Chanderpaul plays for an entirely different team. A team that is constantly under pressure. He's scores runs.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Add to the fact that Ponting has faced inferior bowling attacks in his career and his performance is in the same region as Lara-Tendy-Dravid.

That's the key right there. As unfair as people may say it is, the fact remains that Ponting plays his cricket in an era where Australia has been the only team with a GREAT bowling attack. Though England is putting something together now, the fact is that bowling attacks around the world have been mediocre to say the least. Ponting has never had to face the Australian attack, thus being unable to prove his worth against it. Lara, Dravid and Tendulkar, however, have scored massively against said bowlers.

 

[Jono]

That's the key right there. As unfair as people may say it is, the fact remains that Ponting plays his cricket in an era where Australia has been the only team with a GREAT bowling attack. Though England is putting something together now, the fact is that bowling attacks around the world have been mediocre to say the least. Ponting has never had to face the Australian attack, thus being unable to prove his worth against it. Lara, Dravid and Tendulkar, however, have scored massively against said bowlers.

Definitely. A ton against Mcgrath, Gillespie, Warne is much more (much much more) impressive than a ton against Pathan, Zaheer, Kumble (away from India especially which is when Ponting had that fabulous series).

Ponting is a champion without a doubt, but his scores against quality pace attacks are few and far between (unfortunately he hasn't had many opportunities in the past 5 years) and his biggest challenge against spin, India, he hasn't exactly been great.

Tendulkar, Lara, Dravid have faced these attacks. I'm not sure what Kallis' average against Australia is so someone would have to inform me of that, but he like Ponting has been brilliant in the past 2-3 years.

 

[Jono]

You do realise that Dravid is TEC's favourite player, don't you?

You still haven't explained his false statistics though Faaip. It really damages TEC's argument.

 

[Jono]

As are a lot of players - which is my point.

But not comfortably, which is many people's point!

 

[marc71178]

At this stage I would say he is personally in that I have no hesitation in making the call - if it wasn't comfortably then I'd have to think before making the call.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

You still haven't explained his false statistics though Faaip. It really damages TEC's argument.

I don't really think I need to explain them, given that they aren't mine, and I don't know what he meant or where he went wrong. I just think it's ridiculous to claim that TEC is somehow trying to make Dravid look bad because he is biased against Indians, when he's about the biggest fan of Dravid (and Bevan) on CW. It would be like claiming Marc was biased against Giles or you were biased against Tendulkar or Adamc was biased against Lara or I was biased against McGrath. It's pretty obvious who some people's favourite players are, and to claim that TEC only says he likes Dravid to cover up his secret anti-Indian tendancies is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Jono]

I never claimed he was biased and I'm not getting into that argument, I just feel that he's been shown up by claiming that Dravid didn't score a ton between those years, especially considering his 180 against Australia in 2001 which came in the famous Laxman/Dravid partnership in the 2nd test was within that time frame.

Quite a silly mistake, especially with the arrogance he made his comments in.