Who is a better batsman Martyn or Chanderpaul?

[Sanz]

Err, yeah. It's all a BIIIIG conspiricy... TEC secretly hates all Indian players and just spends all his time on the forum going on and on about how great Dravid is to hide that fact from perceptive people like you. Well done, Sanz. Have you considered a job at Scotland Yard?

Keep on. I know how much TEC defends Dravid, so much that he has to post incorrect facts about Dravid to prove your point.

However, as things stand, Tendulkar is not as good as he was throughout the 90s, and does not warrant selection in a world XI currently, while Martyn is fairly close, missing out by one or two spots.

As things stand, Sehwag has been averaging more runs than Martyn from 2003, 2004 2005. Not to forget the quality of Bowling Sehwag has scored against has been much better than what Martyn has done. So Sehwag is better than Martyn ? No according to you he is not. Yes, Tendy is not as good as he was in 90s, But he is still better than Martyn's and Lehmans of your world.

The umpiring decisions are neither here nor there, as every player gets those from time to time. .

You will obviously say that. Tell me when was the last time Ricky Ponting(he always gets in his favor) or Damien Martyn got a decision against them. I can show at least 5-6 decisions against SRT in last couple of years.

Regarding his average, it is inflated by three large scores.

So ?? Isn't Martyn's average inflated by the 7 centuries he scored ? Isn't every batsman's average inflated by his higher scores ?

(even if one of them was against Bangladesh and the other two on very flat wickets),

Let me guess - Martyn scored 104 & 114 in Chennai and Nagpur, they were probably as flat as any pitch we see in India in tests(in Banglore and Mumbai where he faced some turn, he averaged around 25 in 4 innings), Tendy played on a seasoned turner at Sydney and it is dubbed as VERY FLAT. So much for not showing your bias. . Didn't Martyn play at Sydney ? How much he scored on a supposedly VERY flat track ? Oh Wait, the pitch was flat when SRT was batting but it became a vicious turner the moment Martyn came on to bat, and it became very flat after he got out.

As for Bangladesh, let me tell you this If Marto had made that score against BD, you would probably have hailed that as his greatest performance(as was done after Hayden's comical 380 against Zim ) and If Sachin had scored those centuries against Sri Lanka, you would have hailed those tracks as flat tracks and SRT as FTB which we have seen on this board very often.

 

[Swervy]

That's the key right there. As unfair as people may say it is, the fact remains that Ponting plays his cricket in an era where Australia has been the only team with a GREAT bowling attack. Though England is putting something together now, the fact is that bowling attacks around the world have been mediocre to say the least. Ponting has never had to face the Australian attack, thus being unable to prove his worth against it. Lara, Dravid and Tendulkar, however, have scored massively against said bowlers.

right then..I have spent 10 minutes working some stuff out.

Here are some players records since the start of this decade in tests NOT playing against Australia or Zimbabwe or Bangladesh..obviously the Aussies records are just without the Zimb and B'desh games

Dravid 57 innings 7 no 3000 runs @ 60.00 9 100's 12 50's
Ponting 86 innings 14no 4530runs @ 62.92 15 100's 15 50's
Martyn 75 innings 11 no 3545 runs @ 55.39 12 100's 17 50's
Tendulkar 52innings 4 no 2412runs @ 50.25 6 100's 12 50's
Lara 70innings 2 no 3996runs @ 58.76 12 100's 13 50's
Kallis 85innings 13no 4345runs @ 60.34 14 100's 20 50's
Hayden 100innings 9no 4898runs @ 53.82 17 100's 19 50's


make of that what you will!!!!

 

[tooextracool]

This is what I call BLATANT LIE. But knowing you, I am not surprised. Your bias against Indians has always been so apparent. Anyways Dravid Centuries between Mid 2000 and and early 2002 :- Read and WEAP.

1. 200* on 20th Nov 2000
2. 162 on 26th Nov 2000
3. 180 on 14th Mar 2001
4. 144* on 14th Apr 2001

And How many century is that ?? As for Martyn, why dont you look once again and find out the no. of months Martyn went without, I can gaurantee you that it is at least 24 months.

hmm, must have got the statistics mixed up.martyn did infact go for 16 tests(25 innings) without a century. nonetheless it was brian lara who went through a 15 test(27 inning) period of 1.5 years without scoring a single century.
http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

and as far as me being biased against my favorite player is concerned, you cant stuff it.

Typical you, But I dont expect anything better from you. Sachin scored 55 on the 3rd day when the pitch was at it worst, and Martyn scored a bif FAT ZERO.

err tendulkar had to contend with hauritz and clarke.
martyn had to contend with harbhajan, kumble and karthik.
gee i wonder who had the tougher time

Martyn is a very good batsman, but I am not going to put him in the same class as BLC, SRT etc just because he has had one great year. You can put him next to bradman, but that's you. and your weird theories.

i think we all know where i stand on SRT.
i most definetly havent said that martyn is in the same class as dravid or lara. i do of course think that on current form, hes performing just as well as them, and at the end of his career, he might be at least in the same class even if hes not as good as either of them.

 

[C_C]

err tendulkar had to contend with hauritz and clarke.

so by that (non-existant) logic, a zero is on even footing with a half-century.

 

[tooextracool]

And Do you realize that how TEC posted incorrect figures to prove his point ? I dont believe Dravid is his fav. player, because if anyone has followed Dravid's career would never make an stupid statement that Dravid didn't make a century for 2 years between mid 2000 and early 2002 (which is not even 2 years, but for TEC it is) simply because some of Dravid's best knock came during that period. That Dravid is his fav. player is a LIE (and a mask he uses to cover his biasness) just like the the lie posted about RD going centuryless for 2 years and Martyn going centuryless for 1 year.

and it isnt possible to make a mistake isnt it? especially when you have about 30 minutes time to make all your posts? seriously though, i've watched more off dravid than you have watched cricket games. and if you think that i've had to go through millions of arguments about why dravid is a better player than lara and SRT, just to 'cover up my biasness', is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. and its even more insane to think that someone who rates sehwag and kaif as highly as i do would be biased against india.

 

[tooextracool]

so by that (non-existant) logic, a zero is on even footing with a half-century.

and because you havent figured it out yet, his 55 on day 2 in conditions about as difficult as the ones on day 3, would rank at least on even footing, if not better.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

So Sehwag is better than Martyn?

Well for one they are different sorts of batsmen... but at a pinch no, I would rate Martyn marginally ahead of Sehwag currently, primarily because Martyn's significant scores in recent times have largely been match-winners in difficult circumstances, while Sehwag's abject failures in the second innings count against him somewhat in terms of consistency. But yes, Sehwag is a very good player and I'd have him in my world XI currently, and yes I also think he is playing much better than Tendulkar currently.

No according to you he is not. Yes, Tendy is not as good as he was in 90s, But he is still better than Martyn's and Lehmans of your world.

Not sure where Lehmann comes into it, given that he has clearly looked well past it in recent times and can't even make the Australian team currently.

You will obviously say that. Tell me when was the last time Ricky Ponting(he always gets in his favor) or Damien Martyn got a decision against them. I can show at least 5-6 decisions against SRT in last couple of years.

If I recall correctly, didn't Ponting get sawn-off in New Zealand on the recent tour a couple of times? Damien Martyn as well, if I'm not mistaken.

So ?? Isn't Martyn's average inflated by the 7 centuries he scored ? Isn't every batsman's average inflated by his higher scores ?

Okay... do you see the difference between averaging 50 with 7 centuries and a bunch of 50s and so on, and averaging 50 with 3 exceptionally big centuries, one of which was against Bangladesh and the others in massively high scoring games where many other players scored a heap of runs as well, and a whole bunch of failures?

Let me guess - Martyn scored 104 & 114 in Chennai and Nagpur, they were probably as flat as any pitch we see in India in tests(in Banglore and Mumbai where he faced some turn, he averaged around 25 in 4 innings), Tendy played on a seasoned turner at Sydney and it is dubbed as VERY FLAT. So much for not showing your bias. . Didn't Martyn play at Sydney ? How much he scored on a supposedly VERY flat track ? Oh Wait, the pitch was flat when SRT was batting but it became a vicious turner the moment Martyn came on to bat, and it became very flat after he got out.

The pitch in Sydney was very flat, anyone who watched the game will tell you that. If it turned at all, it wasn't until the later stages of the match. Tendulkar's innings was still very good, but that doesn't alter the fact that it was a very flat wicket. It was not a "seasoned turner" by any stretch of the imagination.

As for Bangladesh, let me tell you this If Marto had made that score against BD, you would probably have hailed that as his greatest performance(as was done after Hayden's comical 380 against Zim ) and If Sachin had scored those centuries against Sri Lanka, you would have hailed those tracks as flat tracks and SRT as FTB which we have seen on this board very often.

What a joke. When have I ever hailed Hayden's 380 against Zimbabwe as his greatest ever innings? The best Hayden innings I have ever seen was his 119 at Sharjah against Pakistan, without question. A couple of his knocks in India in 2001 were very good as well. The innings against Zimbabwe was massive and was worthwhile just for how long he managed to maintain his concentration for and how completely he took apart the bowling attack, but it was hardly one of the greatest innings ever played or anything given that it came on an absolute road against a shocking bowling attack.

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1635

Furthermore, when have I ever called Sachin a flat track bully? Because I recognise that he's out of form at the moment means I think he's a crap player? Honestly, as I said earlier, you need to get off your high horse and stop accusing everyone you talk to on here of being biased against India, because it just makes you look like an idiot.

 

[C_C]

conditions about as difficult as the ones on day 3

by conditions, if you mean pitch condition, it wasnt the same level.

 

[Jono]

No its definitely possible to make mistakes TEC. But when you make them whilst exemplifying overt arrogance, one can't help but point them out to prove a point.

 

[tooextracool]

You still haven't explained his false statistics though Faaip. It really damages TEC's argument.

i dont see any reason why he needs to, given that it was my argument.

 

[tooextracool]

by conditions, if you mean pitch condition, it wasnt the same level.

rubbish, the pitch wasnt significantly worse on day 3 than it was on day 2.

 

[tooextracool]

No its definitely possible to make mistakes TEC. But when you make them whilst exemplifying overt arrogance, one can't help but point them out to prove a point.

and i have still managed to provide the right statistics to prove my point.

 

[Swervy]

right then..I have spent 10 minutes working some stuff out.

Here are some players records since the start of this decade in tests NOT playing against Australia or Zimbabwe or Bangladesh..obviously the Aussies records are just without the Zimb and B'desh games

Dravid 57 innings 7 no 3000 runs @ 60.00 9 100's 12 50's
Ponting 86 innings 14no 4530runs @ 62.92 15 100's 15 50's
Martyn 75 innings 11 no 3545 runs @ 55.39 12 100's 17 50's
Tendulkar 52innings 4 no 2412runs @ 50.25 6 100's 12 50's
Lara 70innings 2 no 3996runs @ 58.76 12 100's 13 50's
Kallis 85innings 13no 4345runs @ 60.34 14 100's 20 50's
Hayden 100innings 9no 4898runs @ 53.82 17 100's 19 50's


make of that what you will!!!!

and further players

Sehwag 37innings 0no 2219 runs @ 59.97 8 100's 6 50's
Chanderpaul 61innings 10no 2938runs @ 57.61 9 100's 15 50's

 

[tooextracool]

How so? The fact that the West Indies has gone on to lose so many Tests with Chanderpaul being such a solid figure in batting collapses makes me wonder. Are you saying that Chanderpaul's runs don't come at crucial stages?

Damien Martyn resides in a powerhouse team. Chanderpaul is in a team where monstrous individual efforts can't inspire victory and yet there is a constant desire for victory. If that's not a difficult circumstance, then what is? Practically everytime Chanderpaul walks to the crease he goes with the mentality that "I can't fail". Simple as that really. He can't go out thinking, "well if I do fail, the bowlers will take us back into the match" or "Gilly'll pick us up". Chanderpaul plays for an entirely different team. A team that is constantly under pressure. He's scores runs.

there is no doubt that chanderpaul has more pressure to perform than martyn does, but one must remember that the conditions in which chanderpaul performed in the last year, were extremely extremely flat. his 203 and 127 for example, are barely even worth noting.
there are of course some decent innings too, but on the whole i'd think having to score runs in india, SL and at darwin was a lot more difficult than chanderpauls.

 

[Sanz]

and it isnt possible to make a mistake isnt it? especially when you have about 30 minutes time to make all your posts?

No, Not if he is fav. player. And anyone who has followed Dravid's career remotely will be able to tell you that Dravid hit peak at around 2000-2001 season and since then has been in tremndous form. Besides how can a cricket fan forget the 2001 epic series with Australia with Lax 281 and Dravid 180.

seriously though, i've watched more off dravid than you have watched cricket games..

Yes, It was so apparent in your post. So how many years Dravid went without a century (Without looking into statsguru).

 

[C_C]

rubbish, the pitch wasnt significantly worse on day 3 than it was on day 2.

rubbish, the pitch was significantly worse on day 3 than it was on day2

 

[Sanz]

Not sure where Lehmann comes into it, given that he has clearly looked well past it in recent times and can't even make the Australian team currently.

The same Lehman who looked well past in recent times scored more than Martyn in Sri Lanka.

 

[tooextracool]

rubbish, the pitch was significantly worse on day 3 than it was on day2

18 wickets were lost on day 2 and 20 on day 3, how is that significantly worse? thats despite australia batting like idiots on day 3.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

The same Lehman who looked well past in recent times scored more than Martyn in Sri Lanka.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but that was over a year ago, and if you've seen him bat since then you will know that he hit a terrible patch of form and couldn't score a run, and then he had an injury and was dropped.

 

[C_C]

18 wickets were lost on day 2 and 20 on day 3, how is that significantly worse? thats despite australia batting like idiots on day 3.

because a pitch DOES get significantly worse with passage of play..it might ease out on day 2 but on the last few days, it definately is harder to bat on and more uneven- which in no small part is due to the footholes left by the bowlers.

Falling wickets used as a guage to how the pitch is playing is almost as idiotic as evaluating how good a wicketkeeper is by looking at their catches/match ratio.