King_Ponting
International Regular
Yeh but what were mac gills figures for that test match. This is the one in sydney and mac gill was belted. http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2003-04/IND_IN_AUS/SCORECARDS/IND_AUS_T4_02-06JAN2004.html
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Who is a better batsman Martyn or Chanderpaul?
- Thread starter aussie
- Start date
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Roughly 5/150 in the Melbourne Test. But it was more the way that Sehwag treated him with utter disdain that I was referring to.King_Ponting said:
King_Ponting
International Regular
On what i've seen Sehwag struggled against warne, rather than mac gill. when he played against australia.
Top_Cat
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Seriously C_C, there's no doubt Sehwag has had a fantastic year but so has Martyn. You might be able to make a case for saying one is better one way or the other but to say Sehwag is 'miles' ahead of Martyn is doing Martyn a great disservice. How can you dismiss his great Test knocks (most of them when AUstralia were in real trouble) with such ease? In my opinion, you can't.
King_Ponting
International Regular
C_C in all honesty you need evidence to back up your arguments.
C_C
International Captain
Over the last year and half or so, Sehwag is better than Martyn.
India has had rough batting form over that period - with only Dravid and Sehwag consistently doing the job. Tendy, Ganguly and Laxman have all had rough times.
Contrast that to Aus, where its all hunky dory in the batting lineup with the only 'failure' comming as the 40+ average of Hayden.
As per its harder for an opener if you suck against spin, i fail to see the logic in that.
Opening is ALWAYS harder than batting in the middle order - which is why openers rarely average as much as middle order batsmen do.
The ball is newer and as a result, the pacers are at their most venomous ( unless you talk about the extremely few pacers who excelled in reverse swining it). Plus you have NO IDEA how the pitch is playing or is going to play.
A middle order batsman has the luxury to go in having a fairly good idea of how the pitch is playing.
An opener is going in blind. The pitch could be a monsfer or a cakewalk- it is yet to be determined with the scores at 0/0.
Oh and Scally- over the past year, Sehwag has played 14 tests and averages 71.18.
As per Sehwag being weak against spin, i can only say that the person who says that hasnt watched Sehwag bat- Sehwag is one of THE BEST players of spin on this planet.
He gets out early on in his second innings to pacers- not spinners. And for one who 'sucks' against spinners, he has been dismissed by spinners less often than players like Tendy,Ponting, Lara, etc.
India has had rough batting form over that period - with only Dravid and Sehwag consistently doing the job. Tendy, Ganguly and Laxman have all had rough times.
Contrast that to Aus, where its all hunky dory in the batting lineup with the only 'failure' comming as the 40+ average of Hayden.
As per its harder for an opener if you suck against spin, i fail to see the logic in that.
Opening is ALWAYS harder than batting in the middle order - which is why openers rarely average as much as middle order batsmen do.
The ball is newer and as a result, the pacers are at their most venomous ( unless you talk about the extremely few pacers who excelled in reverse swining it). Plus you have NO IDEA how the pitch is playing or is going to play.
A middle order batsman has the luxury to go in having a fairly good idea of how the pitch is playing.
An opener is going in blind. The pitch could be a monsfer or a cakewalk- it is yet to be determined with the scores at 0/0.
Oh and Scally- over the past year, Sehwag has played 14 tests and averages 71.18.
As per Sehwag being weak against spin, i can only say that the person who says that hasnt watched Sehwag bat- Sehwag is one of THE BEST players of spin on this planet.
He gets out early on in his second innings to pacers- not spinners. And for one who 'sucks' against spinners, he has been dismissed by spinners less often than players like Tendy,Ponting, Lara, etc.
Last edited:
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Just bear in mind I come from the 'huge Sehwag fan' side of things. I love the way the guy bats and I hope it continues because geez, the man can bat! I think he has tons of grit about him too; his 90-odd in the WC final against the Aussies was a really tough knock and he took some genuinely nasty bowling on the chin (almost literally a few times!). I've been a big admirer since then (hadn't seen much of him previously).
Plus I just love it how he has a huge grin on his face every time Sachin hits a boundary.
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Last 35 Tests:
Chanderpaul
2981 runs
Avge: 60.83
12 hundreds
11 fifties
Avge v teams other than Zim/Ban: 64.98
Martyn
2651 runs
Avge: 50.98
9 hundreds
12 fifties
Avge v teams other than Zim/Ban: 51.32
Last 10 Tests:
Chanderpaul
1160 runs
Avge: 82.85
4 hundreds
4 fifties
Avge w/o NOs: 64.44
Martyn
894 runs
Avge: 74.50
4 hundreds
4 fifties
Avge w/o NOs: 63.86
Chanderpaul
2981 runs
Avge: 60.83
12 hundreds
11 fifties
Avge v teams other than Zim/Ban: 64.98
Martyn
2651 runs
Avge: 50.98
9 hundreds
12 fifties
Avge v teams other than Zim/Ban: 51.32
Last 10 Tests:
Chanderpaul
1160 runs
Avge: 82.85
4 hundreds
4 fifties
Avge w/o NOs: 64.44
Martyn
894 runs
Avge: 74.50
4 hundreds
4 fifties
Avge w/o NOs: 63.86
King_Ponting
International Regular
C_C said:
And i wonder why that is. here u have an opener who prodominantly faces pace bowlers. And then u have put 3 middle order players in as getting out to spin more than Sehwag....... Hmmm yeh good argument u've got there
. It would have been more apropriate to include someone like Hayden in that list but oh whats that Sehwag gets out to spin more than Hayden................. Evidence = links to stat sites etc not stuff u just put down in your posts with no external links.
King_Ponting
International Regular
Interesting how both players have higher averages when u take out both the minnows...Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Percentage of 70+ scores of the team total (last 10 Tests)
Chanderpaul
128* v England - 30.76%
97* v England - 36.32%
76 v England - 19.25%
203* v SA - 37.38%
127 v SA - 17.00%
92 v Pak - 26.67%
153 v Pak - 37.88%
Martyn
114 v India - 28.64%
97 v India - 29.48%
70 v NZ - 11.97%
100* v Pak - 27.7%
142 v Pak - 37.47%
165 v NZ - 28.94%
Chanderpaul
128* v England - 30.76%
97* v England - 36.32%
76 v England - 19.25%
203* v SA - 37.38%
127 v SA - 17.00%
92 v Pak - 26.67%
153 v Pak - 37.88%
Martyn
114 v India - 28.64%
97 v India - 29.48%
70 v NZ - 11.97%
100* v Pak - 27.7%
142 v Pak - 37.47%
165 v NZ - 28.94%
C_C
International Captain
Again, its largely irrelevant.
Evertime an opener scores more than 30-40 runs, he is facing up to spinners.
And here is a list to the % of times established openers from the last few years have gotten out to spinners- i cant be arsed to link to crickinfo but you can check it up if you dont believe it. I aint into spoonfeeding unless its necessary.
Hayden : 37%
Langer : 34%
Tresco : 24%
Strauss: 22%
Smith : 18%
Gibbs : 36%
Gayle : 17%
Jaya : 29%
Atapattu:35%
Sehwag :17%
Evertime an opener scores more than 30-40 runs, he is facing up to spinners.
And here is a list to the % of times established openers from the last few years have gotten out to spinners- i cant be arsed to link to crickinfo but you can check it up if you dont believe it. I aint into spoonfeeding unless its necessary.
Hayden : 37%
Langer : 34%
Tresco : 24%
Strauss: 22%
Smith : 18%
Gibbs : 36%
Gayle : 17%
Jaya : 29%
Atapattu:35%
Sehwag :17%
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Rarely a truer word spoken.C_C said:
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Chanderpaul and Martyn aren't too different (not taking handedness and stance into consideration). Both batsmen are solid for their team and both score runs fairly quietly and in an unassuming manner. It's undeniable that Martyn gets more press though. I dare say it's because he's Australian. I'm not attacking Australians or anything of the sort, but this seems the truth to me.
C_C
International Captain
I think it has also gotto do with their styles.
Martyn plays free-flowing cricket and in his youth was too carefree.
Chanders was the diametric opposite- in days gone by, he looked like he was scared shitless to do anything but block.
Unfortunately for him, even though he has moved past the days of 'turtlepaul', the world apparently has not.
Martyn plays free-flowing cricket and in his youth was too carefree.
Chanders was the diametric opposite- in days gone by, he looked like he was scared shitless to do anything but block.
Unfortunately for him, even though he has moved past the days of 'turtlepaul', the world apparently has not.
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Up until this year though, he didn't. Martyn was just so awesome in 2004... not so much in terms of the runs he scored, but the situations he scored them in, that he suddenly got a heap of press. Remember that after the series against Indies in 2003/04 people were calling for him to be dropped.Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Chanderpaul is undoubtedly massively underrated though, and I rate him among the top 10 or so batsmen in the world today.