*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Silver Silva]

I'm not sure what to make of this, but the international game cannot survive with 3 functioning teams and 5-6 **** ones. Can it? Then what is the pathway for a young NZ player, to be picked up by franchises straight out of U17?

God forbid cricket turns out like international league, where no one really gives a ****, only 2-3 teams are decent at it, they play at an inconvenient time where everyone is jaded from the 'important' stuff (ie NRL and franchise cricket) and not everyone is available.

I'm still convinced T20 has a shelf life, when the dopamine wears off and the novelty becomes old hat for a product that has no statistical or historic relevance, and it becomes the same old hit and giggle **** you've seen 100 times over. I will die on that hill, that in 10 years time people will quote this post, and I can say I was right.

It can survive bro it just won't be test cricket that survives outside a handful of test teams , and I hate to break it to you but T20 is here to stay , way more people watch it than test cricket , in the stadiums and on TV and it brings in way more revenue.. Test cricket is like the cinema trying to survive in an era where people have Netflix , I admire your passion but the bottom line speaks loudest.

 

[SteveNZ]

We'll see. T20 doesn't have a loyal following, how many products survive when that's the case, unless they're truly addicting. It's passion guiding me somewhat, of course, but it's also an intelligence that nothing with context and loyalty lasts, unless it can adapt and move with the times. Otherwise, it's replaced by the latest fad.

 

[thundaboult]

Yeah t20s will stay. It is what it is and most games are genuinely fun to most people in the last 15 to 20 years. Case in point the crowd attendance at t20 games vs the attendance at a test game. Very few countries attract crowds for a test match whilst t20s have lively crowds in every nation. Very few sessions in test cricket, let alone the whole match are actually fun to watch.

T20s also allow cricket's global expansion which is desperately needed. A country like scotland can genuinely beat a country like aus in a t20 at any given moment but this is impossible in a test arena. It gives the newbies a chance. T20 has given cricket a much needed shot of excitement in the arm.

None of this is a secret. I think when it comes to the long format game, its not tuk tuk lets watch paint dry test cricket but the odi world cup that most cricket fans enjoy. Its crickets longest running world cup and is THE legacy world cup.

And @SteveNZ , quite wrong...t20 does have a loyal following. Its been pretty obvious for a while that it does. IPL, PSL, BBL, T20 world cups. All have a loyal following. But hey you love test cricket and more power to you. Test cricket is still okay in some instances but everything has to evolve and a game of "athletic" competition that last 5 days, 8 hours everyday in the modern day era of short attention spans, relying mostly on defense/negativity (hence unattractive viewing for audiences) will not make the cut.

 

[Bahnz]

Shots fired

 

[Moss]

Cricket lives and dies with the India market, with all the layers which come with it. Everything else (including T20 leagues elsewhere) is unfortunately mere detail. The IPL is the centerpiece of all of it because it's found to be a sustainable business model and a product which will appeal to the (mainly Indian) masses in the long term. To @SteveNZ 's observation that franchise T20 may not survive, that may still hold true for the other T20 leagues (see England suddenly deprioritizing The Blast in favour of The Hundred) which are otherwise basically going blindly all-in following the IPL's success, but the IPL is just too big to fail and will be protected and prioritized at all costs. Looking at it dispassionately, the BCCI have shown they capable of marketing and preserving anything when push comes to shove, they were not keen on T20 prior to India winning that first world cup in 2007. Bottom line being, for all their faults, they've shown some clear vision, however cynical, where ICC and other boards have not. Easy when you have a huge population base that continues to engage unconditionally with the game at various different levels.

In terms of numbers alone, the serious (even geeky) following for international, non-franchise cricket in India may be a mere fraction of what it is for the IPL, but as a legacy thing it is still statistically greater than the pockets of serious interest you have in places like England and Australia, which is the reason international cricket is still enough of a drawcard in India. Apart from the fact that cricket is a vehicle for nationalism here so ODI and T20 world cups are still a major thing, and so the BCCI have ensured it isn't killed off, and the ICC's main occupation now is to keep the Indian fanbase happy. They had so many opportunities to draw up a blueprint for sustaining international cricket everywhere but they've shown themselves to be completely incapable of it, and the other boards are focused on the low-hanging fruit too.

I hate to say/think it, but if the longer formats are to be revived, it'll only happen when the BCCI suddenly get creative and decide to take the lead on remodelling the World Test Championship in a meaningful way, or feel that they need a franchise test league to shake things up and promote it as a targeted product for more evolved fans. For better or worse they're the only body in the game with the political will to make things happen.

 

[RMBolton]

And meanwhile the rest of us get screwed over, cricket as we know it gets destroyed & we have no way to save ourselves.

 

[thierry henry]

And meanwhile the rest of us get screwed over, cricket as we know it gets destroyed & we have no way to save ourselves.

I have no idea what the context of this post is but it just feels so deeply true

 

[thierry henry]

Accepting that T20 has won is accepting that humans are bad. Which I don’t fundamentally disagree with (we suck).

 

[RMBolton]

I have no idea what the context of this post is but it just feels so deeply true

I've been arguing with a few folks on Twitter who think a franchise league will help NZ because they assume franchise = money. It feels like no matter what NZC/NZ cricket does, we get screwed.
I even saw a suggestion for a NZ T20 league to take place in Oct-Nov before peak T20 season. The poster couldn't grasp why it was a stupid idea.

Seeing as a Super Smash with all our star players available & playing is far too much to ask, I've got no idea how to make SS the best it can be for our home audience - don't even think about chasing overseas audiences. I've always believed franchising is a terrible idea as it doesn't solve anything turning SS into a better run CPL, & NZ BBL teams is a bad idea too as it puts a wrecking ball to the domestic setup.

 

[SteveNZ]

Cricket lives and dies with the India market, with all the layers which come with it. Everything else (including T20 leagues elsewhere) is unfortunately mere detail. The IPL is the centerpiece of all of it because it's found to be a sustainable business model and a product which will appeal to the (mainly Indian) masses in the long term. To @SteveNZ 's observation that franchise T20 may not survive, that may still hold true for the other T20 leagues (see England suddenly deprioritizing The Blast in favour of The Hundred) which are otherwise basically going blindly all-in following the IPL's success, but the IPL is just too big to fail and will be protected and prioritized at all costs. Looking at it dispassionately, the BCCI have shown they capable of marketing and preserving anything when push comes to shove, they were not keen on T20 prior to India winning that first world cup in 2007. Bottom line being, for all their faults, they've shown some clear vision, however cynical, where ICC and other boards have not. Easy when you have a huge population base that continues to engage unconditionally with the game at various different levels.

In terms of numbers alone, the serious (even geeky) following for international, non-franchise cricket in India may be a mere fraction of what it is for the IPL, but as a legacy thing it is still statistically greater than the pockets of serious interest you have in places like England and Australia, which is the reason international cricket is still enough of a drawcard in India. Apart from the fact that cricket is a vehicle for nationalism here so ODI and T20 world cups are still a major thing, and so the BCCI have ensured it isn't killed off, and the ICC's main occupation now is to keep the Indian fanbase happy. They had so many opportunities to draw up a blueprint for sustaining international cricket everywhere but they've shown themselves to be completely incapable of it, and the other boards are focused on the low-hanging fruit too.

I hate to say/think it, but if the longer formats are to be revived, it'll only happen when the BCCI suddenly get creative and decide to take the lead on remodelling the World Test Championship in a meaningful way, or feel that they need a franchise test league to shake things up and promote it as a targeted product for more evolved fans. For better or worse they're the only body in the game with the political will to make things happen.

Essentially, this is the post you get when you insert my feelings, and put it into an intelligent, well structured format.

 

[SteveNZ]

Of course I went over the top when I said there wasn't loyalty in T20, because in the IPL there is clearly an incredible following and loyalty. Those fans are *insert team here* die hards. They care about legacy. They know who won in 2012, they know who was the orange cap (or whatever it is) winner the following year, etc. Those are loyal, die hard fans who ensure the relevance and longevity of a format and a sport.

But that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. No other country in the world gives a **** about their T20 franchise team much. It's a party in the Windies. In England, the loyalty to a county exist through other formats. Maybe it's being grown in the Big Bash, but it's not there. Our competition is a joke. Dubai is an oil baron cash fest, that would die the second they got bored and took their bat + ball elsewhere. That's the issue - T20 is entertainment. India apart (who are an outlier in their fanaticism), if you give someone a new option, they'll drop the old one. That isn't the case in Test cricket. Very few people are staying up to 2am to watch a T20I or a franchise game outside of India. Even the T20I World Cup, that's not a jot on the 50-over World Cup. Especially as they've tried to force it upon us every 2 years, thus wringing all the emphasis out of it.

I'm not suggesting T20 will eventually go away, because I agree with Thierry - people (not in here) are idiots, and they go for the short-term fix, the wackedy-do easy thrill. That'll always exist. But what I am saying is that if you make that the only option, it gets old hat and people, once that dopamine fix has worn down, will move onto something else, and your game is ****ed. You have to have the tradition and context of AT LEAST Test cricket (I'd argue the loss of ODI cricket will devalue international cricket significantly, but I won't get unanimous backing) or you've got no substance, nothing to hold passionate fans onto.

A truly forward-thinking, business-savvy ICC would get this done with the franchises to ensure the sustainability of both. But I don't have any confidence that will happen. I've never bought into the 'death of Test cricket' but I'm starting to worry

 

[SteveNZ]

One thing I do hope with NZC (and again, I doubt it) is that they now completely turn their back on Finn Allen. I have no interest in seeing him play for NZ ever again. I (begrudgingly) accept he's allowed to do what he wants, and play for who he wants. But there is no reason to pick him in any format again for us. I do not want him wheeled out for T20 World Cups, playing in Canada and Turkmenistan in between cycles. We can do without the 35 runs he scored in four knocks last time out, having excused himself from the Pakistan tour because you can't as easily drink piss there and take insta photos by the pool.

He'll be a very interesting test case, if we let him be. Let him roam the world, playing in meaningless competitions, without any significant coaching or emphasis on his game, and see where he gets to. Without access to national coaches, time at Lincoln and access to year-round facilities (as should be the case without a contract) let's see if he gets to a point where he can still cobble a game together, or falls apart. Then it might be a nice thing to reflect on that maybe you need the international platform, and globe-trotting whilst swinging off your arse for 10 balls at a time isn't quite what it's cracked up to be, even if your accountant disagrees.

 

[thundaboult]

I do agree about Finn Allen.

The guy has made this decision like he's a well established world class batsman with many successful years behind him. Dude you've just started your career 3 years ago in the INTL scene lol. His talent ceiling is incredibly high and he has nowhere near reached that potential. Has there ever been a full international season where he's been fire from start to finish? I don't think so. He had made an ok-ish start to his odi career in 2022 and after that its been non-existent. Anyways, if he SOMEHOW gets better as a t20 bat because of constantly playing in leagues like the windies' players have....and he can come in and help us win a trophy or 2, I'll eat my words. The big picture is all about bettering NZ cricket and winning world tournaments. If he ends up playing a part, good.

 

[Immenso]

Finn is short-cut taker.

NZ cricket's loss isn't that Finn Allen has turned down a contract, it is that he is a waster. Which has been starting to show for the few years he was contracted.

I have no philosophical objection to NZ picking a Finn Allen, going forward in this new reality, for white ball tournaments if he is good enough. I just kind of think he's on a path to mediocrity, though. I doubt he'll have the self discipline and 'coaching' in a free-lancing life to make more than like 60%ish of his talents surface. He doesn't have a Brad Hodge like base to work from. Could be a path minor leagues level before he is 30.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Here's how I hope it will play out.

Finn spends a couple of years in the franchise circuit averaging low 20s. Fails to pick up an IPL gig. Starts to realise he's a little fish and big pond and goes through some soul searching and maturing. Comes back to NZ and plays a couple of seasons of red ball cricket to get some more volume of time in the middle and looks to push his way back into NZ contention with weight of runs. Returns to the white ball setup with greater confidence against quality new ball bowling from his time in red ball cricket and proceeds to become our greatest ball striker ever.

 

[SteveNZ]

Finn is short-cut taker.

NZ cricket's loss isn't that Finn Allen has turned down a contract, it is that he is a waster. Which has been starting to show for the few years he was contracted.

I have no philosophical objection to NZ picking a Finn Allen, going forward in this new reality, for white ball tournaments if he is good enough. I just kind of think he's on a path to mediocrity, though. I doubt he'll have the self discipline and 'coaching' in a free-lancing life to make more than like 60%ish of his talents surface. He doesn't have a Brad Hodge like base to work from. Could be a path minor leagues level before he is 30.

He 100% is a short-cut taker. He has never wanted to work hard.

Only difference between you and me is that I have a significant objection to NZ picking him. Trent, and to a lesser extent Jimmy etc, have given enough to NZ. But Finn hasn't given us a lot, and for him to thumb his nose at our domestic competition - which I presume he is going to do - suggests to me that he shouldn't be allowed within cooee of national selection. If he performs in the Big Bash and IPL, I guess you'd have a decent marker on his form, but no other league is going to provide any tangible idea of how he'll go at a higher level.

Will be very interesting as to whether an IPL team wants him in the auction. He hasn't played a single IPL game, has he?

 

[NZTailender]

Do we know what his motivations are? I'm not 100% a fan at all but has he actually made a statement anywhere as to why he turned it down?

Otherwise we're just slagging someone off based on our (probably right) presumptions, but they're still presumptions.

 

[jcas0167]

Do we know what his motivations are? I'm not 100% a fan at all but has he actually made a statement anywhere as to why he turned it down?

Otherwise we're just slagging someone off based on our (probably right) presumptions, but they're still presumptions.

Will apparently get near twice his retainer from playing for the Scorchers.

The Post

www.thepost.co.nz

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Do we know what his motivations are? I'm not 100% a fan at all but has he actually made a statement anywhere as to why he turned it down?

Otherwise we're just slagging someone off based on our (probably right) presumptions, but they're still presumptions.

I heard he was mad that the women got a pay rise.

 

[NZTailender]

Will apparently get near twice his retainer from playing for the Scorchers.

The Post

www.thepost.co.nz

He's either shrewd and knows his limitations and his laziness, figures to make a buck while he can, and sees that T20 is his main path in that he'll probably will never play Tests and would have to improve a lot for a consistent ODI role, so knows this is the better option short term.

Or he's vastly overestimated his talent and worth to franchises.