*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[SteveNZ]

RE Finn... I totally get that it's his destiny to be a T20 hired gun, but I think this is a bit overconfident. He's not the finished product and he hasn't yet dominated a season in any respectable league outside the super smash (I watched some of big MLC innings and he was slashing it over third man half the time).

He'd have been better off keeping the contract and using international cricket to build a reputation and get consistent training time before making the jump in a few years imo, there's a pretty big chance of him fading out of the franchise scene if he doesn't hit a big season soon.

Honestly, I don't wish ill on people usually, but I wouldn't mind seeing this happen as an example of caution to other players.

To be clear, there are no Finn Allens in New Zealand cricket. No one at any level, that I've heard of, has his ball striking ability. The last one we had was Gup, but Finn strikes it better when he's on (don't get that confused with being a good player, FYI). The difference between the two, is that Gup worked hard for everything he's got, he was raised by his Dad who was a workmanlike opening batting stalwart at club level, and was taught to eke out every bit of his talent through hard work. Finn, was not. His attitude sucks. He could be anything, and set himself up for life not only in franchise cricket but as a great of his generation and lead in the next wave of NZ cricketers, but instead he'll just accumulate a lot of frequent flyer miles and play a lot of meaningless games that mean **** all.

OK, here I am, sitting on my couch, all well and good for me to judge. But anyone who is old enough and wise enough to know what the meaning of a truly fulfilling life is, is that money isn't everything, and purpose is more what you'll reflect on when you're old and grey. I imagine Finn doesn't have a lot of good mentors around him, and is pretty naive/narrow-minded himself. Same as the LIV golfers, they're not there (most of them) when the majors come around, when the truly meaningful stuff happens. They sold their soul for money, and they'll potentially one day think it wasn't worth it. Maybe not.

 

[SteveNZ]

Why would the ICC solve anything? This is a feature, not a bug. We supply talent to their leagues like good little provincial nations, the Big 3 remain "the best in the world" and the suits in the right places make all the money in the world through mass market exploitation of multiple generations who can't put down Facebook (boomers), insta or tik tok.

Cricket is a product to be consumed, not a sport to be played.

I'm not sure what to make of this, but the international game cannot survive with 3 functioning teams and 5-6 **** ones. Can it? Then what is the pathway for a young NZ player, to be picked up by franchises straight out of U17?

God forbid cricket turns out like international league, where no one really gives a ****, only 2-3 teams are decent at it, they play at an inconvenient time where everyone is jaded from the 'important' stuff (ie NRL and franchise cricket) and not everyone is available.

I'm still convinced T20 has a shelf life, when the dopamine wears off and the novelty becomes old hat for a product that has no statistical or historic relevance, and it becomes the same old hit and giggle **** you've seen 100 times over. I will die on that hill, that in 10 years time people will quote this post, and I can say I was right.

 

[jcas0167]

Honestly, I don't wish ill on people usually, but I wouldn't mind seeing this happen as an example of caution to other players.

To be clear, there are no Finn Allens in New Zealand cricket. No one at any level, that I've heard of, has his ball striking ability. The last one we had was Gup, but Finn strikes it better when he's on (don't get that confused with being a good player, FYI). The difference between the two, is that Gup worked hard for everything he's got, he was raised by his Dad who was a workmanlike opening batting stalwart at club level, and was taught to eke out every bit of his talent through hard work. Finn, was not. His attitude sucks. He could be anything, and set himself up for life not only in franchise cricket but as a great of his generation and lead in the next wave of NZ cricketers, but instead he'll just accumulate a lot of frequent flyer miles and play a lot of meaningless games that mean **** all.

OK, here I am, sitting on my couch, all well and good for me to judge. But anyone who is old enough and wise enough to know what the meaning of a truly fulfilling life is, is that money isn't everything, and purpose is more what you'll reflect on when you're old and grey. I imagine Finn doesn't have a lot of good mentors around him, and is pretty naive/narrow-minded himself. Same as the LIV golfers, they're not there (most of them) when the majors come around, when the truly meaningful stuff happens. They sold their soul for money, and they'll potentially one day think it wasn't worth it. Maybe not.

Martin Crowe was apparently mentoring Allen before he got sick, as he did with Taylor and Guptill. If he was still around I wonder if Allen might have made more of a go of first class cricket. A real shame he's gone down this route and as you say he probably won't be the last as these T20 leagues become increasingly lucrative.

 

[James]

I wonder how much money Allen could expect to make. I guess he could get picked up in the Big Bash, maybe the UAE or SA leagues. He doesn't seem to have attracted a large IPL deal to date.

He's getting picked up in the Canadian/USA leagues as well isn't he. He'd be earning a lot more than his NZ contract I'm sure. Plus he probably isn't a tax resident of New Zealand anymore so may be paying close to 0% tax.

The NZ team doesn't have the appeal that the All Blacks have, so I personally think NZC need to come up with a different way of approaching it. Perhaps allowing players to go off and play in leagues whenever they like, and have a world-wide selection system where the players have the power.

When you can earn so much more playing overseas and avoiding the NZ tax system at the same time, you can't blame them really.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

As someone who also loves to work as little as possible and get paid, if the guy thinks he can make a ****load more money facing 10 balls a game then I say go for it. The concept of playing "for your country" died as soon as the big money leagues came in. The ICC are banking on T20 cricket becoming like club football.

 

[SteveNZ]

As someone who also loves to work as little as possible and get paid, if the guy thinks he can make a ****load more money facing 10 balls a game then I say go for it. The concept of playing "for your country" died as soon as the big money leagues came in. The ICC are banking on T20 cricket becoming like club football.

Fair enough. I'm someone who would much rather earn a bit less to do meaningful work. We're all different.

You cannot bury international cricket when it has so much history and context, fans will not drop that to pick up a franchise instead. Clubs were always the thing in football. So if the ICC are banking on that, I guarantee it'll be a failure.

 

[Moss]

Meanwhile does this mean NZC has to factor in the IPL-backed SA20 on a permanent basis when it comes to the home season? The West Indies season used to be March-May/June, but that’s long been pushed out thanks to the IPL. NZ’s international season seems destined to become a completely pre-Christmas thing now?

 

[NZTailender]

He's getting picked up in the Canadian/USA leagues as well isn't he. He'd be earning a lot more than his NZ contract I'm sure. Plus he probably isn't a tax resident of New Zealand anymore so may be paying close to 0% tax.

The NZ team doesn't have the appeal that the All Blacks have, so I personally think NZC need to come up with a different way of approaching it. Perhaps allowing players to go off and play in leagues whenever they like, and have a world-wide selection system where the players have the power.

When you can earn so much more playing overseas and avoiding the NZ tax system at the same time, you can't blame them really.

What does this mean

 

[James]

What does this mean

Means he's probably got his affairs setup where he doesn't have to pay NZ tax because he's out of the country for the bulk of the year playing T20 leagues around the world.

 

[Chewie]

Means he's probably got his affairs setup where he doesn't have to pay NZ tax because he's out of the country for the bulk of the year playing T20 leagues around the world.

this is actually a very interesting question that i've never really thought too hard about

 

[Chewie]

this is actually a very interesting question that i've never really thought too hard about

interesting for tax nerds like me at least

it would be very difficult for him not to be tax resident in NZ, but he, like the rest of the Black Caps and other NZ cricketers who go play abroad would generally also be taxed in that other country

 

[James]

interesting for tax nerds like me at least

it would be very difficult for him not to be tax resident in NZ, but he, like the rest of the Black Caps and other NZ cricketers who go play abroad would generally also be taxed in that other country

Yes likewise, interesting isn't it for players from high-tax countries and how they would structure their affairs.

I'm guessing they may get Dubai tax residency through a business setup as one example and send their $ there and pay little to no tax.

I would think T20 circuit players from NZ wouldn't qualify for NZ tax because they'd spend less than 183 days in the country. And that may well play into the decisions made by Finn Allen and others where they'd be losing 39% of their pay to tax if they became an NZ contracted player.

The $ and the commitment required to be an NZ contractor player simply don't make sense if you can get on the T20 circuit for a few years which obviously helps set your family up for many years to come.

 

[RMBolton]

Meanwhile does this mean NZC has to factor in the IPL-backed SA20 on a permanent basis when it comes to the home season? The West Indies season used to be March-May/June, but that’s long been pushed out thanks to the IPL. NZ’s international season seems destined to become a completely pre-Christmas thing now?

Maybe for those who will never be in and around the Test side. Even so, in '25-6 the boys go to India for a month in the leadup to the T20WC, & the 26-7 season involves away Tests vs Australia & Pakistan & a Sri Lanka all format tour in Jan 27.

I'm not sure if this is a permanent thing. This may well have happened last summer if not for the Pakistan series (as much as I hated it).

Super Smash is the biggest loser, of course. How in the world are we supposed to make something of it when even our stars are scattered throughout the world?

 

[SteveNZ]

Meanwhile does this mean NZC has to factor in the IPL-backed SA20 on a permanent basis when it comes to the home season? The West Indies season used to be March-May/June, but that’s long been pushed out thanks to the IPL. NZ’s international season seems destined to become a completely pre-Christmas thing now?

Good point, and what a horrible prospect that would be, if they have to shoe horn everything in pre Xmas when the weather can be less predictable, and away from January when the general public has the strongest appetite for the game

 

[Smudge]

I would think T20 circuit players from NZ wouldn't qualify for NZ tax because they'd spend less than 183 days in the country. And that may well play into the decisions made by Finn Allen and others where they'd be losing 39% of their pay to tax if they became an NZ contracted player.

Technically, if someone was on $363k (the salary for the 20th-ranked in the NZC central contracts last year), they'd be taxed 33.2%. They only get taxed 39% for any earnings above $180k.

 

[ashley bach]

Keep an eye over your shoulder because Smudge the taxman is coming after you.

 

[Smudge]

Keep an eye over your shoulder because Smudge the taxman is coming after you.

Haha, I barely understand them, so James, Finn Allen and Devon Conway are safe. I just follow what my tax accountant mate tells me when it comes to my tax return every year.

 

[NZTailender]

Technically, if someone was on $363k (the salary for the 20th-ranked in the NZC central contracts last year), they'd be taxed 33.2%. They only get taxed 39% for any earnings above $180k.

Can't believe how many people still don't realise how tax rates work tbh. Especially when they use it as a crux for their arguments...

 

[SteveNZ]

If money becomes the main, and only consideration for these guys, let's see if there's regret about not being part of something bigger, self realization, etc.

I suspect there might be. No issue for someone like Trent Boult who achieved a lot in the game, but very little respect for me for someone like Finn who in my opinion, knows he is better to take the easy franchise option because he doesn't intend on working hard enough.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I don't think you need to get all caught up in honour and philosophy to argue against what he's doing here. Even if his sole goal is to maximise income with no care for anything else he's pulling the trigger on internationals too early here.