The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Qlder]

You don’t follow the discussion properly and taking a side. Check the stats I posted and comment.

You posted Lloyd never lost a series as captain and WI had 1970's dominance. He did lose 5-1 to Australia in 75/76 and WI was never dominating until the 1980's. Check your own facts as your infatuation that Lloyd must be captain appears to be based on your significantly incorrect captaincy record stats

 

[CricketFan90s]

You posted Lloyd never lost a series as captain and WI had 1970's dominance. He did lose 5-1 to Australia in 75/76 and WI was never dominating until the 1980's. Check your own facts as your infatuation that Lloyd must be captain appears to be based on your seriously incorrect Captaincy record stats

no i was referring to Viv Richards and not Clive Lloyd. In fact Lloyd after seeing the heroics of Lillee and Thompson in that series got an idea to have four fast bowlers in the Team. So that series gave Lloyd idea to intimidate the opposition with 4 big fast bowlers.

That series you referred to sow the seeds for West Indies Domination. This was like Newton getting the idea to propose Law of Gravity. Clive Lloyd got the idea to use fast bowlers as a intimidation tactic to win matches which Viv Richards followed as a honest follower.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Which Test captains had the greatest effect on their team's fortunes?

Plus, the canniest captaincy tactics, the zaniest declarations, the luckiest toss winners, the overachievers, and more

www.thecricketmonthly.com

 

[CricketFan90s]

Which Test captains had the greatest effect on their team's fortunes?

Plus, the canniest captaincy tactics, the zaniest declarations, the luckiest toss winners, the overachievers, and more

www.thecricketmonthly.com

Clive Lloyd had a Positive Effect on the Team and also his own batting record improved. So i will prefer him to come at No 6 in my Team.

 

[kyear2]

It do make sense, my argument is that in an all time XI you can fit in an allrounder as a 3rd bowler when you already have 3 greatest bowlers of all time. This gives them overwhelming advantage as a batting unit and as a bowling department it makes only little difference as Miller is only below Lindwall and Davidson by few factors. Don’t forget that Miller had better average than both these players in Ashes.

I don't understand how this argument has really got to this point.

It's crazy how it's seen as viable to weaken the bowling and to think that it will drastically strengthen the batting somehow.

The bowlers are there to take wickets, Miller just isn't a viable candidate. You pick either the best 4, or the 4 that compliments each other the best. If there's a tie breaker, then sure, but no as a bedrock of the selection policy.

 

[kyear2]

They already have an overwhelming advantage as a batting unit, which makes it a moot point. Yes, replacing 1 of your 4 main bowlers with an inferior bowler will make a sizeable difference. Far larger than the gain you’d get from his batting at 8.

This.

 

[CricketFan90s]

This.

did you check the ashes record i posted.

 

[kyear2]

Viv was never a better captain than Lloyd sorry. Lloyd built the team and was the pioneer to West Indies domination in 1970s and he had more wins you can check the stats. Don’t fight to win the debate and you need to cultivate respecting your opponent who can give you quality discussion. Diminishing return is your perceptual fallacy you are defending at any cost. Clive Lloyd had better winning record and Richards had better batting record as a non captain. Lloyd being a pioneer gets extra points as his ideas and legacy was carried by Viv. Check there away record and home record you will come to know Clive Lloyd was more efficient in winning matches compared to Viv ( he never lost a series). Coronis Kid I come up with facts you come up with your perceptual fallacy.

First of all, what makes a great captain? Having a great winning record is very team and talent dependent. It's also been said that Lloyd wasn't seen as a great captain at county level. Most of the great bowlers set their own fields and basically you're rotating bowlers based on schedule or by feel.

Viv bad a worse record as captain because it was later in his career and his peak was in the 70's and very early 80's, nothing to do with the captaincy.

 

[Qlder]

Which Test captains had the greatest effect on their team's fortunes?

Plus, the canniest captaincy tactics, the zaniest declarations, the luckiest toss winners, the overachievers, and more

www.thecricketmonthly.com

This article is just rubbish. I should have stopped reading after it said the playing XI is largely selected by the Captain

 

[CricketFan90s]

This article is just rubbish. I should have stopped reading after it said the playing XI is largely selected by the Captain

that article i just posted to know your thoughts. its not a benchmark for me to decide why Lloyd will be there instead of Headley.

Lloyd was a trendsetter in building a world class team which viv carried the legacy. see many interviews by experts you have to agree that Lloyd was No 1 Captain in making his Team believe to dominate 70s and 80s and of course West Indies managed to win 2 world cups only under his captaincy.

His field placements and his strategies paved way for 80s domination of West Indies.

You people are undermining the role of a Great Captain. I want Viv to play at No3 with out any captaincy responsibilities.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Viv Richards

3rd Position

1976-1986

45

59

2

3508

291

61.54

12

14

2

Brian Lara

3rd Position	1992-2006	43	66	4	3749	400*	60.46	6011	62.36	9	13	4	508	22
4th Position	1990-2006	91	148	1	7535	277	51.25	12523	60.16	24	31	11	974	59

Gary Sobers

3rd Position	1956-1963	14	17	3	1009	365*	72.07	3	2	0
4th Position	1957-1969	18	24	0	1530	226	63.75	6	4	2
5th Position	1955-1974	29	37	5	1895	178*	59.21	7	8	4
6th Position	1955-1974	42	57	8	2614	174	53.34	8	11	4
7th Position	1955-1974	12	13	4	610	142	67.77	1	5	2

Clive Lloyd

5th Position	1966-1984	54	72	6	3049	163	46.19	8	14	1
6th Position	1968-1985	39	47	4	2114	161*	49.16	6	13	2

George Headley

3rd Position

1930-1948

19

32

3

2064

270*

71.17

10

4

1

 

[Qlder]

So yes, Lloyd is easily the worst batsman on that list so misses out on an ATG WI spot in middle order

 

[CricketFan90s]

So yes, Lloyd is easily the worst batsman on that list so misses out on an ATG WI spot in middle order

hmm i will agree with you. Headley was too good as No3 player. 71 Average means he was almost as good as Bradman. Viv Richards will come at No5 and Lara will come at No4. Let us make Clive Lloyd the Manager of this Team. Viv Richards the Captain. Viv has the leisure to come at No 5.

 

[Coronis]

Anyone got a shotgun? Asking for a friend.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Anyone got a shotgun? Asking for a friend.

Statistics show that Davidson took 39 % of innings he bowled minimum 3 Wickets
Lindwall took 31 % of Innings he bowled minimum 3 wickets
Miller took 27 % of innings he bowled minimum 3 wickets.

Miller bowled an Average of 18 Overs per innings, Lindwall 20 overs per innings and Davidson 23 Overs per innings.

As Davidson was a Left Hander and a better batsmen compared to Lindwall. I will replace Miller with Davidson

 

[bagapath]

With Lillee and McGrath taking the new ball and Shane Warne being the first choice spinner (slightly ahead of Tiger) the third pacer's slot can be filled by one of the four great options: Lindwall/ Davidson/ Cummins/ Spofforth.

Miller comes in as the fourth pacer to make it a five member attack. If one were to purely choose a third pacer, then Nuggets has to make way for one of the other four.

I would love to have Miller as the fourth pacer and sixth batsman. he is a marginally superior replacement to great No.6 options like Border and S Waugh, because he is 80% of them as a batsman and a more than useful fifth bowler.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Lillee bowled 23 Overs per Innings and took 23 Five Wickets , 23 Four Wickets and 17 three Wickets - 47.7 % of innings he played he took three Wickets.
McGrath bowled 20 Overs per Innings and took 29 Five Wickets, 28 Four Wickets and 47 three wickets - 42.79 % of innings he played took three wickets.

These Stats prove why Lillee was regarded very highly in his Era.

Pat Cummins bowled 18 Overs per innings and took 12 Five Wickets, 16 Four Wickets and 24 Five Wickets - 45.22 % of innings he played he took three wickets.

Lillee, McGrath, Cummins and Warne can be a Deadly Combination i guess.

 

[Spark]

Please stop making all-bold posts, my eyes are bleeding

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I’d get rid of one of the openers and put Ponting in

 

[CricketFan90s]

I’d get rid of one of the openers and put Ponting in

Ponting is a Good Option. Honestly