Should Langer get D R O P P E D as Australian coach?

[TheJediBrah]

I don't get at all where this has come from. We've been talking **** about Langer for years and I was always under the impression that his status as an overly-emotional man-baby with massive biases re. players and just a **** coach in general was widely accepted.

Now all of a sudden he's being painted as a victim who was treated harshly. Such a quick turn around I'm getting whiplash just thinking about it

 

[Spark]

Oh never mind I get it now

It's extremely transparent and has been building for months.

 

[SteveNZ]

But you're Cummins number one fan. We shouldn't expect less in your defence of hypocrisy.

Haha, I'm not that deeply invested. I just think he's a good bloke and a great bowler. It wouldn't get in the way of me being critical of something he did.

You see even that is ambiguous. Langer is part of the team right? Besides he didn't identify who his "mates" were. Does it matter though? Mateship isn't the issue. Cummins identified the issue when he decided Langer had to go. Everyone gets evaluated on performance he said. Well lets see: Changed his attitude after talking to the team about their problems, T20 WC - check, Ashes - check. Plus there were other achievements (amongst the failures) including the job of getting past cheatgate and the discovery of Marnus - I mean did you pick that? Evaluation? - performance? Sure ... sure. What an evasive bull****ter he is. Do you feel sorry for him that he couldn't directly say why Langer went? Find a better cause. He put himself in that position so he can at least admit it.

There's a greasy film about our Pat I suspect oozes from a reserve of oiliness beneath. Makes sure all his good deeds are photo ops but sneaky dealings aren't meant for the public. But when they do get out there's silence and evasive blame shifting. It was CA what done it. My word he looks like a politician.

Langer seems to be the one who listened and met the demands and still performed his role successfully. I think the players were surprised and undermined him anyway irrespective about performance and evaluation. Is it fair enough? I don't think so but it's a fact they had the pull to shiv him. But I think I have reason to dislike the duplicity and puke when I see your public blow jobbing of handsome Pat.

Langer isn't part of the team, per se, he's the coach. Just like a teacher isn't a member of the class. They are the facilitator. We know he meant his mates, as in his team-mates. Or I did.

I hear what you're saying, yes of course everyone gets evaluated on performance. But at some stage, they have to be evaluated on future output as well. And I completely disagree with you saying he didn't/couldn't say why Langer went. I heard loud and clear why Langer went. Because he's intense, and the same intensity/passion that got them from that low ebb in 2018, is now becoming overbearing and has the potential to blow up in their faces as COVID bubbles continue to be an issue and the constant rigours of touring and being in the same spaces. I don't believe for a second that players 'undermined' Langer. They simply reported how they felt being coached by a self-confessed and well known to us all hot head/full on individual. That type of 'passion' and 'energy' clearly had a shelf life.

I laugh when people use the Ashes as a tick box. Like Pauline Hansen couldn't have coached this side to 4-0. And even the T20 World Cup, all reports suggest Langer took a back seat to McDonald and di Venuto. Add to that checklist the woeful series loss to India B at home that meant they missed out on the WTC final.

And OK, maybe I am 'blow jobbing' Pat - although I'm reasonably neutral as I could give three ****s about whether Australia does well or not, really. I would also suggest that there is a clear agenda (or perceived from me) from old school 'the coach is in charge' people who think Langer has been white-anted. I don't think they shived him, made him walk the plank etc. They simply suggested that he would not be the best coach going forward past his contract period. Where's the issue in that? I can't see it.

Of course, if Pat wasn't a good looking, clean skin, intelligent human being who has the brains and confidence to speak on issues that concern the world (and a certain type & generation HATE this like it's a threat on their own existence) then he might have a few more on his team.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Shiv-ing has the opposite meaning anyway - don't do anything different and put all the responsibility on people who aren't as good as you to preserve your average reputation.

 

[SteveNZ]

I don't get at all where this has come from. We've been talking **** about Langer for years and I was always under the impression that his status as an overly-emotional man-baby with massive biases re. players and just a **** coach in general was widely accepted.

Now all of a sudden he's being painted as a victim who was treated harshly. Such a quick turn around I'm getting whiplash just thinking about it

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I read some of it as a generational thing - it feeds into the rhetoric of 'modern day cricketers are pampered little sissies who collect their IPL money, have no interest in good old hard work and player power is officially out of control when their influence gets to decide who is their coach. They just want a yes man who pats them on the head and protects their pretty little egos and emotions'

He was off contract, he wasn't fired, he was told he wasn't the best coach for the future. Players get dropped. Coaches get told to move on. Where's the beef?

 

[Shri]

About "sticking up for mates?" You think so? The bloke has just shivved the coach. Some mate.

‘I should’ve reacted differently’: Langer’s frustration at Amazon doco pay deal

The embattled Australian coach was the undisputed star of last year’s “The Test”. He negotiated his own payment — and was then gazumped by his own players.

www.smh.com.au

The pugnacious former Test opener soaked up most of the screen time, rumbling with captain Tim Paine and batsman Usman Khawaja while delivering affirmations (“We, not me!” “This is a PVO – a Positive Vibe Only – club!” “You can’t sugar-coat ****!“) to his players.
While Langer’s team ethos is all about unity, it can be revealed it was anything but when negotiating appearance fees for the series.

Langer cut a deal with Amazon Prime for a payment of about $40,000, according to sources familiar with negotiations, leaving the players to work out their own arrangement.

Imagine their joy, then, when the Australian Cricket Association told them they were each receiving $81,000, regardless of how long they spent on camera. Fringe players like Jack Wildermuth, who was on screen for a matter of seconds, received the same as Steve Smith and Dave Warner – and double the coach.

MORRIS: The brutal $41K revenge act that exposed Justin Langer’s biggest flaw

MORRIS: The brutal $41K revenge act that exposed Justin Langer’s biggest flaw

www.foxsports.com.au

On the day Langer found out the players had negotiated $41,000 more than him to appear in the documentary, he changed plans late and without warning.

On the whiteboard in Melbourne, a light fielding session was scheduled. It was supposed to be nothing more than a top-up on the MCG turf.

Langer, having just discovered he’d undervalued himself despite being the centrepiece of the production, took half-a-dozen players and torched them with a gruelling fitness and fielding session in the heat.

 

[Line and Length]

I don't get at all where this has come from. We've been talking **** about Langer for years and I was always under the impression that his status as an overly-emotional man-baby with massive biases re. players and just a **** coach in general was widely accepted.

Now all of a sudden he's being painted as a victim who was treated harshly. Such a quick turn around I'm getting whiplash just thinking about it

This sums up the attitude of many CW members, especially since that documentary. I readily accept that Langer has faults as a coach but the character assassination coming from so many whose opinions are based on little or no first-hand knowledge should hardly be regarded as a 'widely accepted' view.
As a player, Langer was a gutsy and valued team-member, as is evidenced by comments from his peers, and, although flawed as a coach, his achievements far outweigh his failures.

 

[GotSpin]

Achievements is an interesting way of putting it. Anyone could have coached Australia to a series win for rhe ashes

 

[Spark]

This sums up the attitude of many CW members, especially since that documentary. I readily accept that Langer has faults as a coach but the character assassination coming from so many whose opinions are based on little or no first-hand knowledge should hardly be regarded as a 'widely accepted' view.
As a player, Langer was a gutsy and valued team-member, as is evidenced by comments from his peers, and, although flawed as a coach, his achievements far outweigh his failures.

Do you think that hammering a bloke who hasn't even played a full game for Australia and just took his first catch as sub fielder and is buzzing just because they wore a watch is appropriate behaviour as a superior? Because that **** would absolutely attract serious concern if replicated in any other job.

 

[Spark]

Like, there's a rank double standard coming from the ex-players complaining about decisions based on rumours and innuendo - as if CA were relying only on media reports, and not talking to players and staff directly - whilst trying to sneak all sorts of conspiracy theories into the public sphere about Cummins and the senior players and running an obvious media campaign themselves for months.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Langer came across as a mopey, moody **** in that documentary. Also dovetails with him randomly flicking off bails while crossing over from square leg and then having the absentmindedness to appeal for it. Normally these signs would invite a degree of concern and sympathy for his mental well-being but he and his former teammates don't help matters by being so vehement in public. Phase out already; this is Pat Cummins' team now and most in that side, as far as I can tell, will go to war for him, regardless of what a Warne or Hayden might think about their manliness.

 

[Spark]

There were more than a few of us here who very much felt Langer being appointed coach was a bad idea long term from the very start

 

[Spikey]

hahahaha my first post in the thread after he got hired: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/thr...langer-appointed-australian-head-coach.77979/

It's good that we picked someone who responds well to adversity and doesn't act like a baby

remember when Vic used to post?

From the first paragraph:


And then:


Firstly, the second line contradicts the first, no? And a few notes:

- Langer's describing the culture that he came into, where the captain basically had complete control over the dressing room and what would go on.
- There's little doubt that Steve Smith didn't have that - and a lot of that comes from Lehmann who predated him as coach, and also the types of characters that have traditionally dominated Australian cricket.
- There was a point where the team tried to move towards a reflection of Smith's ethos in the Indian tour of how to play cricket (on the field)...
- And then back towards the Australians of old for the Ashes (#beatEngland, ending careers, etc.), which showed that he didn't end up holding sway in the dressing, and left a vacuum.

 

[Spikey]

I think one of the many things lost in this is that I doubt the direction of the role of support staff is only turning away from Langer. I suspect it will also turn away from Lehmann, and I wonder if like Simpson/Taylor in the 90's, the role of the coach as a selector comes up as well

 

[quincywagstaff]

This saga just underlines how vulnerable Australia were going into the Ashes.

Because of Paine's sudden departure, Australia had a rookie captain who clearly didn't rate the coach. In the pressure situation of an Ashes if they'd faced a half-decent opposition all these background issues could've caused serious disharmony within the team.

That Australia was able to gloss over these problems without even raising a sweat shows just how abysmal England were this summer.

 

[Starfighter]

There were more than a few of us here who very much felt Langer being appointed coach was a bad idea long term from the very start

I think most of the voices who oppose him here were opposed to him from the start. I certainly was.

 

[Spark]

I think most of the voices who oppose him here were opposed to him from the start. I certainly was.

Yeah I agree

 

[Spark]

This saga just underlines how vulnerable Australia were going into the Ashes.

Because of Paine's sudden departure, Australia had a rookie captain who clearly didn't rate the coach. In the pressure situation of an Ashes if they'd faced a half-decent opposition all these background issues could've caused serious disharmony within the team.

That Australia was able to gloss over these problems without even raising a sweat shows just how abysmal England were this summer.

Maybe also shows that the team, which has looked strong on paper without really delivering on field for two and a half years, works better when left to its own devices...

 

[Spikey]

undefeated since dropping langer. wow

 

[Shady Slim]

Maybe also shows that the team, which has looked strong on paper without really delivering on field for two and a half years, works better when left to its own devices...

aside from the bowling did it though?

i get you said "on paper", but i don't think an aging an injured dave warner (who though to his credit rebounded in the recent ashes to a degree), matty wade and trav head and marcus harris really have anyone quaking in their boots

obvs smith and marnus and the bowlers

yeah