S Africa calls for its players to stay

[Noah]

^ damn, missed a golden opportunity for a gag about a quota for the use of the word 'quota' in all future articles.

 

[Fred Tetanus]

Oh shut up, both of you.

What's with people around here abusing those who take contrary views? Instead of telling me to shut up why don't you try refuting my post with facts? Give us some official crime stats that show Sth Africa isn't the crime-infested cesspool that I (accurately) describe it. Probably too hard for you.

 

[Zinzan]

What's with people around here abusing those who take contrary views? Instead of telling me to shut up why don't you try refuting my post with facts? Give us some official crime stats that show Sth Africa isn't the crime-infested cesspool that I (accurately) describe it. Probably too hard for you.

Couldn't agree more, sad when folks resort to trollish baiting & righteousness followed by patronising attempts at condescension, making their agendas all too clear.........

Two absolute minnows going at it in this series. Bangladesh well you expect it but the fact that they get to spend a significant part of the southern summer in NZ just shows where the latter sit in the who cares department of world cricket. It's actually disturbing that there are nearly 1,000 posts on the tour to be honest.

They were ranked number 1 just recently brains. Doesn't change my point which obviously flew right over your head. Sad.

39 posts and counting of legitimate discussion says you're wrong. It also says that I'm spot on, exactly as that first sentence said. Kindly stop infesting my thread with your unproductive rubbish.

I don't envy those from NZ trying to come up with their worst XI when they have so many to choose from. They really are spoilt for choice here!

 

[jcas0167]

What's with people around here abusing those who take contrary views? Instead of telling me to shut up why don't you try refuting my post with facts? Give us some official crime stats that show Sth Africa isn't the crime-infested cesspool that I (accurately) describe it. Probably too hard for you.

The opportunity to live in a relatively safe country is no doubt an added attraction, but in reading about players who move, the lack of opportunities due to racial discrimination seems more significant. Pietersen, Elliot & Wagner, for example. That also seems to have been a factor with several of the players who have come to NZ recently, such as Bowes & Nofal.

Crime & economic factors are probably more significant in terms of families moving & NZ has obviously had an influx of South African born players whose families moved when they were growing up.

 

[Fred Tetanus]

Couldn't agree more, sad when folks resort to trollish baiting & righteousness followed by patronising attempts at condescension, making their agendas all too clear.........

You know what's even sadder? When folks throw the trolling label around as a first resort when they have nothing legitamate to refute an argument. Try using intelligence instead if possible.

 

[Fred Tetanus]

The opportunity to live in a relatively safe country is no doubt an added attraction, but in reading about players who move, the lack of opportunities due to racial discrimination seems more significant. Pietersen, Elliot & Wagner, for example. That also seems to have been a factor with several of the players who have come to NZ recently, such as Bowes & Nofal.

No doubt a major factor too which actually just highlights another of the big problems with the country. It's not just cricket players though, White people in general leave the country in droves. I wonder why.

Stand by for this post to be labelled trolling because no one can dispute the facts.

 

[jcas0167]

No doubt a major factor too which actually just highlights another of the big problems with the country. It's not just cricket players though, White people in general leave the country in droves. I wonder why.

Stand by for this post to be labelled trolling because no one can dispute the facts.

I amended my post to mention that crime & economic factors were probably more significant in terms of families moving over & NZ has seen a lot of players who were born in SA, but who moved to NZ growing up. Off the top of my head, Munro, Watling, the Cachopa's, Phillips (NZ did lose Ben Stokes too when his dad moved to coach league in the UK).

 

[Zinzan]

You know what's even sadder? When folks throw the trolling label around as a first resort when they have nothing legitamate to refute an argument. Try using intelligence instead if possible.

I certain agree if the troll labeling is only based on 1 or possibly even 2 posts of that nature.... once you're getting up to 4-5 posts, the benefit of the doubt kind of wavers away. Just the reality of that funny old thing we call the interwebz sadly.

 

[Fred Tetanus]

I certain agree if the troll labeling is only based on 1 or possibly even 2 posts of that nature.... once you're getting up to 4-5 posts, the benefit of the doubt kind of wavers away. Just the reality of that funny old thing we call the interwebz sadly.

Every post you quoted was either a legitamate position that simply contradicted the opinion of someone else or a legitamate reply to someone who had come up with a poor argument. Sad that you grasp at straws by calling them trolling. Suggest you take my advice and use intelligence in your arguments if possible.

 

[honestbharani]

Enlighten me as to the relevance of the ZAR/USD exchange rate to players in county cricket?

You should ask Moonda that. Marius was just pointing out that even that bit was patently false.

 

[vcs]

Quotas seem intuitively wrong in general, and should never be a long-term or permanent arrangement, but it's a complex issue. I simply cannot agree with TJB calling it "racism". I don't think I have enough knowledge of SA's society to be able to comment further on it.

All I can say is they're still pretty bloody competitive as a side, produce a host of awesome cricketers and they seem to be supplying a steady stream of talented cricketers to England and NZ, keeping world cricket interesting.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, should just give them the mace permanently IMO. Other teams find it hard enough to field XI and these guys are supplying for 3.

 

[Daemon]

And it's also not true either. The rand actually strengthened from nearly 17 rand for a dollar at the beginning of 2016 and now it's about 13.70 for a dollar. It was actually one of the world's best performing currencies last year.

But we all know Moonda isn't a writer who really takes facts into account.

Enlighten me as to the relevance of the ZAR/USD exchange rate to players in county cricket?

I thought showing the increase of the rand against the US dollar would mean most people would rightly see it as a broad proxy for the rand's strengthening against all major currencies. Clearly i overestimated the intelligence of some on this forum. But here, I'll help you.

In January 2016 the pound was worth nearly R25. Today it's worth less than R17.

rekt

 

[Noah]

Quotas seem intuitively wrong in general, and should never be a long-term or permanent arrangement, but it's a complex issue. I simply cannot agree with TJB calling it "racism". I don't think I have enough knowledge of SA's society to be able to comment further on it.

All I can say is they're still pretty bloody competitive as a side, produce a host of awesome cricketers and they seem to be supplying a steady stream of talented cricketers to England and NZ, keeping world cricket interesting.

Definitely agree here. Quotas always seem slightly wrong and I'm sure everyone would always like equal representation to be achieved naturally.

 

[Noah]

don't get me wrong though, as far as I'm concerned the quota system is unambiguously racist against White cricketers and creates far too much inequality at the top level for my liking

Again this seems too simplistic. In a vacuum, devoid of any context, quotas are 'racist'. But we're talking about a system where the status quo is also racist (to a far greater extent imo) and decades of institutionalised discrimination has caused massive inequality.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Again this seems too simplistic. In a vacuum, devoid of any context, quotas are 'racist'. But we're talking about a system where the status quo is also racist (to a far greater extent imo) and decades of institutionalised discrimination has caused massive inequality.

again:

involving "complex issues" is irrelevant to what I'm saying

It may be relevant to whether or not it is the "right" thing to do, but there is objectively no doubt that it's racism and creates inequality

I'm not disagreeing with you. Whether or not it's "right" is not relevant to what I'm saying.

Not really wanting to get into definitions of "racism", likely far beyond the scope of this discussion. But it is undoubtedly not a "fair" system, and white players who want to leave have every reason to.

 

[Noah]

Not really wanting to get into definitions of "racism", likely far beyond the scope of this discussion. But it is undoubtedly not a "fair" system, and white players who want to leave have every reason to.

It's not a 'fair' system for anyone involved. At least white players have the ability to emigrate elsewhere in the world to pursue a cricket career if they're frustrated with the system - that's certainly not a luxury other people in South Africa are afforded.

 

[honestbharani]

Humour me this TJB.. How do you "create inequality" where currently equality does not exist?

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's not a 'fair' system for anyone involved. At least white players have the ability to emigrate elsewhere in the world to pursue a cricket career if they're frustrated with the system - that's certainly not a luxury other people in South Africa are afforded.

Of course

Humour me this TJB.. How do you "create inequality" where currently equality does not exist?

You're selecting someone for a position, hiring someone for a job so to speak, based on attributes other than their aptitude for the position. In this case, race.

It's pretty cut and dry

 

[Noah]

Of course
You're selecting someone for a position, hiring someone for a job so to speak, based on attributes other than their aptitude for the position. In this case, race.

It's pretty cut and dry

To play the devil's advocate, you're only creating inequality if the quota system swings things too far the other way.

Substantial barriers currently exist to non-white players that mean team selection is not aways based in merit. The quota system is meant to try and break down those barriers and facilitate a more merit-based system. Inequality is only created if the quotas break down those barriers and then some, ie. white players end up being under represented relative to their participation rates at grass roots level

The idea in principle is that quotas break down barriers that are causing inequality but no more. If the system doesn't work properly that may cause inequality but I don't think it is cut and dry - it is dependent on how it is implemented.