S Africa calls for its players to stay

[Furball]

And it's also not true either. The rand actually strengthened from nearly 17 rand for a dollar at the beginning of 2016 and now it's about 13.70 for a dollar. It was actually one of the world's best performing currencies last year.

But we all know Moonda isn't a writer who really takes facts into account.

Enlighten me as to the relevance of the ZAR/USD exchange rate to players in county cricket?

 

[Marius]

Enlighten me as to the relevance of the ZAR/USD exchange rate to players in county cricket?

I thought showing the increase of the rand against the US dollar would mean most people would rightly see it as a broad proxy for the rand's strengthening against all major currencies. Clearly i overestimated the intelligence of some on this forum. But here, I'll help you.

In January 2016 the pound was worth nearly R25. Today it's worth less than R17.

 

[S.Kennedy]

The quota thing is one of the most ridiculous things in cricket. It is like racism in reverse that has gone too far in the opposite direction and created a new form of discrimination.

 

[jcas0167]

Presumably removing racial discrimination in selection would help In the meantime, NZ seems likely to continue to pick up promising South African players.

 

[Noah]

And it's also not true either. The rand actually strengthened from nearly 17 rand for a dollar at the beginning of 2016 and now it's about 13.70 for a dollar. It was actually one of the world's best performing currencies last year.

But we all know Moonda isn't a writer who really takes facts into account.

That's just a minor recovery though isn't it? The improvement since January 2016 needs to be looked at in the context of the Rand hitting an all time low at that point.

I assumed that the journalist was referring to the steady decline in the value of the Rand since 2009/2010 when they were talking about the 'declining Rand'. Even with the recovery this year, the Rand is still worth ~50% of what it was worth 7 years ago. Surely that is still making it difficult to retain players.

 

[S.Kennedy]

...and English counties.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The quota thing is one of the most ridiculous things in cricket. It is like racism in reverse that has gone too far in the opposite direction and created a new form of discrimination.

This has always been what quotas are, or any form of affirmative action in any industry anywhere in the world.

Creating actual racism/***ism/discrimination in response to a perceived, but usually not genuine, inequality.

 

[Zinzan]

Is it that surprising? 'Quota' has taken on negative connotations - it's definitely become a coded word for groups who strongly oppose affirmative action/equity employment.

That was effectively my point. If you're going to have a quota system that impacts your nations top XI, & then you want to write a nice 'feel-good' patriotic article encouraging players to stay, not calling the Quota system what it is comes across pretty disingenuous in my opinion, given that's a huge reason so many talented white S Africans are looking to other nations for opportunities.

Call it what it is ffs.

 

[Noah]

This has always been what quotas are, or any form of affirmative action in any industry anywhere in the world.

Creating actual racism/***ism/discrimination in response to a perceived, but usually not genuine, inequality.

This is a very simplistic way of looking at a very complex issue.

The 'perceived, but usually not genuine, inequality' line is also a bit of a weird thing to say given we're discussing racial inequality in South Africa. Black cricketers are well represented at age group and provincial levels but then fall away dramatically at franchise level and even worse at national level. I think it's pretty hard to pretend that there aren't structural problems (not all necessarily to do with the cricket administrators) that are holding back a lot of black cricketers.

Whether quotas are effective or ethical are entirely different discussions but let's not pretend that there aren't real issues that prompted this move.

 

[Zinzan]

This is a very simplistic way of looking at a very complex issue.

The 'perceived, but usually not genuine, inequality' line is also a bit of a weird thing to say given we're discussing racial inequality in South Africa. Black cricketers are well represented at age group and provincial levels but then fall away dramatically at franchise level and even worse at national level. I think it's pretty hard to pretend that there aren't structural problems (not all necessarily to do with the cricket administrators) that are holding back a lot of black cricketers.

Whether quotas are effective or ethical are entirely different discussions but let's not pretend that there aren't real issues that prompted this move.

I think even it's toughest critics realise it's a complex issue tbf, but let's call quota system what it is, it's politics above sport.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This is a very simplistic way of looking at a very complex issue.

The 'perceived, but usually not genuine, inequality' line is also a bit of a weird thing to say given we're discussing racial inequality in South Africa. Black cricketers are well represented at age group and provincial levels but then fall away dramatically at franchise level and even worse at national level. I think it's pretty hard to pretend that there aren't structural problems (not all necessarily to do with the cricket administrators) that are holding back a lot of black cricketers.

Whether quotas are effective or ethical are entirely different discussions but let's not pretend that there aren't real issues that prompted this move.

I was talking more about affirmative action in general, especially in employment

I'm well aware that sporting quotas in South Africa is a more complex issue

 

[Noah]

That was effectively my point. If you're going to have a quota system that impacts your nations top XI, & then you want to write a nice 'feel-good' patriotic article encouraging players to stay, not calling the Quota system what it is comes across pretty disingenuous in my opinion, given that's a huge reason so many talented white S Africans are looking to other nations for opportunities.

Call it what it is ffs.

Eh, I don't see it being disingenuous. Anyone even remotely aware if the issue understands what transformation targets are - no one is being deceived by the omission of the word quota.

They're just choosing not to use a word that has been quite divisive in the past. Seems rather sensible to me - why would you engage in dog whistling that works against your cause?

 

[Noah]

I think even it's toughest critics realise it's a complex issue tbf, but let's call quota system what it is, it's politics above sport.

I don't quite get what point you're driving at here. Is there anyone actually arguing that the new quota system isn't politically motivated? It's no secret that CSA is implementing these targets due to pressure from the government.

 

[Zinzan]

Eh, I don't see it being disingenuous. Anyone even remotely aware if the issue understands what transformation targets are - no one is being deceived by the omission of the word quota.

They're just choosing not to use a word that has been quite divisive in the past. Seems rather sensible to me - why would you engage in dog whistling that works against your cause?

Not a fan of softening words and terms for reasons of political correctness, when the impact to your sports-loving S African is much the same. It's semantics sure, but disingenuous IMO, especially given almost every other previous article i've read using the Q word.

 

[Bijed]

I feel that all this is merely serving to distract us from the real issue of the declining Rand.

 

[TheJediBrah]

don't get me wrong though, as far as I'm concerned the quota system is unambiguously racist against White cricketers and creates far too much inequality at the top level for my liking

 

[Zinzan]

I don't quite get what point you're driving at here. Is there anyone actually arguing that the new quota system isn't politically motivated? It's no secret that CSA is implementing these targets due to pressure from the government.

You're the one supporting the softening of the term, not me. If we all agree it's politically-motivated, then why waltz around what is actually is? I say this on behalf of SA mates of mine living in NZ.

 

[Noah]

I was talking more about affirmative action in general, especially in employment

I'm well aware that sporting quotas in South Africa is a more complex issue

I'm sure there is a better thread to discuss this but South African cricket isn't an outlier in terms of affirmative action. All instances of affirmative action/equity employment that I've encountered have involved complex issues too.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm sure there is a better thread to discuss this but South African cricket isn't an outlier in terms of affirmative action. All instances of affirmative action/equity employment that I've encountered have involved complex issues too.

involving "complex issues" is irrelevant to what I'm saying

It may be relevant to whether or not it is the "right" thing to do, but there is objectively no doubt that it's racism and creates inequality

 

[Noah]

You're the one supporting the softening of the term, not me. If we all agree it's politically-motivated, then why waltz around what is actually is? I say this on behalf of SA mates of mine living in NZ.

I'd hardly say I'm supporting the softening of the term. I just understand why they've done it and don't really care what they call it.

It's no skin of my nose if a puff piece about Abbott and Cook's journey doesn't include a particular word. As you say, previous articles have discussed the quotas and referred to them as that - it's not as if the issue isn't being discussed openly.