Road to the 2017-18 Ashes in Australia

[Top_Cat]

He also bowled about a million overs despite being one of the quickest bowlers in the world, had several niggles through the summer and winter tours, had his leg ripped open prior to the Perth Test and now he's properly crocked with an injury literally caused by being overbowled.

Clearly the problem is that he just needs to learn to bowl length.

 

[mr_mister]

should definitely try the big four(if fit) at the WACA


If only for the fact it may be the only chance Pattinson gets to prove his worth

 

[tooextracool]

They're undoubtedly all good bowlers, but England are generally happier facing quality pace than quality spin in alien conditions. Mitch's level in 2013-14 can be taken as an exceptional event, I can think of very few bowlers in my time watching cricket who have sustained that level of aggression and quality over 5 Tests on largely placid surfaces.

England batted fine against a strong SA pace attack this summer in more challenging conditions. Indian and Pakistani batsmen have done OK on Australian wickets in recent years, so no reason English batsmen can't do better.

I don't think this is true - i.e. I don't buy that England are any worse at playing spin than they are at playing pace. As an example, of the England regulars that played in India - Stokes (38), Bairstow (44) and Moeen (42), each exceeded their career averages, while Root averaged 49 and Cook averaged 36, neither of whom are known to be particularly weak against spin.

On the contrary, I think England have a lot of mediocre batsmen but have the luxury of batting depth which has consistently worked for them at home where first inning scores of 250-350 are considered reasonable. The situation is a little different when they play abroad where big first inning scores are the norm. Quite frankly, I just don't think we have the caliber of batsmen capable of scoring big enough, consistently enough in the first inning anywhere in the world.

 

[stephen]

He also bowled about a million overs despite being one of the quickest bowlers in the world, had several niggles through the summer and winter tours, had his leg ripped open prior to the Perth Test and now he's properly crocked with an injury literally caused by being overbowled.

Clearly the problem is that he just needs to learn to bowl length.

To say that Starc is probably the worst of the big 4 is not an insult by any means. He's a damn fine strike bowler and is ahead of most bowlers of the last two decades. The only ones who are clear of him are Steyn, McGrath and possibly Anderson. Philander, Shoaib and a few others has a case as well.

Hazlewood is better than Starc in most conditions but Starc has the ability to take the pitch out of the equation so they do complement each other well (a bit like Philander/Steyn but not quite as accomplished and neither are as good as Steyn). Pattinson is potentially the best of the big 4. Certainly he's been in the best form over the last 12 months. Cummins has a ton of potential and if he can stay fit will take buckets of international wickets.

I think Starc is at his test match peak and probably won't improve. I think Cummins has the most room for growth, Pattinson has the blistering form and Hazlewood is the stalwart cornerstone of the attack.

 

[OverratedSanity]

To say that Starc is probably the worst of the big 4 is not an insult by any means. He's a damn fine strike bowler and is ahead of most bowlers of the last two decades. The only ones who are clear of him are Steyn, McGrath and possibly Anderson. Philander, Shoaib and a few others has a case as well.

That's being extremely generous to him

 

[honestbharani]

I don't think this is true - i.e. I don't buy that England are any worse at playing spin than they are at playing pace. As an example, of the England regulars that played in India - Stokes (38), Bairstow (44) and Moeen (42), each exceeded their career averages, while Root averaged 49 and Cook averaged 36, neither of whom are known to be particularly weak against spin.

On the contrary, I think England have a lot of mediocre batsmen but have the luxury of batting depth which has consistently worked for them at home where first inning scores of 250-350 are considered reasonable. The situation is a little different when they play abroad where big first inning scores are the norm. Quite frankly, I just don't think we have the caliber of batsmen capable of scoring big enough, consistently enough in the first inning anywhere in the world.

England won the toss and batted first on 4 of the 5 tests on very very flat wickets though. I dont think it shows any great improvement in their ability to play spin.

 

[marc71178]

That's being extremely generous to him

OS meet Stephen. Based on most of his posting I'd say he's actually being unusually harsh on Starc.

 

[Adders]

To say that Starc is probably the worst of the big 4 is not an insult by any means. He's a damn fine strike bowler and is ahead of most bowlers of the last two decades. The only ones who are clear of him are Steyn, McGrath and possibly Anderson. Philander, Shoaib and a few others has a case as well.

You are a dead set muppet mate.

 

[Starfighter]

The words 'pot' and 'kettle' are coming to mind.

 

[Adders]

Ok

 

[GotSpin]

Kind of hard to call Starc one of the best bowlers of the past two decades IMO

 

[stephen]

There were some good bowlers in the late 90s, but I was kinda ignoring them. Yes, Donald, Ambrose, Waqar, Wasim and a few others all fall within that time period, but I was mostly speaking to bowlers who had completed the majority of their careers in that time period.

Since 2000 we've really only had McGrath and Steyn that would comfortably walk into an ATG side. Other than Anderson, Philander and Shoaib who else has been as good as Starc in tests? Maybe Johnson, Ntini, Broad and one or two others but I wouldn't think any of those are clearly better than Starc. Fast bowling stocks since the beginning of the century have been quite poor.

I'd be open to hearing which other fast bowlers people are rating at Starc's level or above.

 

[mr_mister]

Shane Bond
Ryan Harris
Mohammad Asif

 

[vcs]

Trent Boult has a decent argument IMO. Statistically they are pretty similar. However Boult hasn't hit that Godly-level that Starc sustained in that SL series. Having said that, Boult did well against SL teams having the likes of Sangakkara/Jayawardene etc. while Starc cleaned up against Karunaratne/Chandimal and co.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I would say Steyn, Philander, Akhtar, Asif, Bond, Anderson, Broad, Zaheer are clearly ahead of Starc based on current levels. Now Starc does have a good 5-6 years of peak bowling left in him and that can potentially change.

That being said, right now with Steyn out for over a year, he is among the top 3 fast bowlers at the moment and is going to hurt England this summer.

 

[harsh.ag]

Asif has given everyone post traumatic overlook disorder.

 

[stephen]

Asif has given everyone post traumatic overlook disorder.

Gold

 

[Gnske]

Shane Bond
Ryan Harris
Mohammad Asif

Two cripples and a cheating waste of human flesh and bone.

Not great pedigree.

 

[mr_mister]

If they're cripples what does that make our pace quartet

 

[Gnske]

Maybe that's why Stokes hates cripples