Road to the 2017-18 Ashes in Australia

[Adders]

I reckon England will troll so hard with their lower order. Can see them being 5/150 odd and posting 400 quite a few times.

I don't know about them doing that "quite a few times" but i was banking on them doing it enough to avoid a 5 zip..........trouble is Stokes is a pretty important part of that troll lower/middle order.

 

[GIMH]

But will you have a better side for the return trip? Who knows how long Anderson will last. Fast bowlers can fall off a cliff fast once they hit a certain age. You would hope that TRJ would be able to step up permanently by the time Anderson is gone but even then your batting stocks are woeful outside Cook and the all rounders. Will that weakness be plugged in 2 years? Who knows.

 

[Adders]

I'm starting to get the feeling that the Full-Strength Aussie Pace Attack (TM) might be getting a bit overrated around here.

Hahaha you think? The way some are banging on about them you'd think they were the reincarnation of the Windies 4 horsemen. Don't let the fact they've never even taken the field together and have a combined test experience of next to **** all stop ths hype though.

 

[honestbharani]

I am not sure of all the quartet being fit or playing together but Starc, Haze, Cummins and Lyon in itself will be a massive proposition for the England batsmen. Aussie media and fans will hype the worst of them and these 4 are actually good. So what do you expect?

 

[Tom Flint]

Aus are only 10/1 to win 5 -0

 

[vcs]

Hahaha you think? The way some are banging on about them you'd think they were the reincarnation of the Windies 4 horsemen. Don't let the fact they've never even taken the field together and have a combined test experience of next to **** all stop ths hype though.

They're undoubtedly all good bowlers, but England are generally happier facing quality pace than quality spin in alien conditions. Mitch's level in 2013-14 can be taken as an exceptional event, I can think of very few bowlers in my time watching cricket who have sustained that level of aggression and quality over 5 Tests on largely placid surfaces.

England batted fine against a strong SA pace attack this summer in more challenging conditions. Indian and Pakistani batsmen have done OK on Australian wickets in recent years, so no reason English batsmen can't do better.

 

[Top_Cat]

Oddly enough, I think the England top-order might have trouble negotiating the movement rather than speed of the Aussie quicks this time. Dunno why but just watching them of late, feel there's an opening there. Something about Hazlewood.

 

[Black_Warrior]

They're undoubtedly all good bowlers, but England are generally happier facing quality pace than quality spin in alien conditions. Mitch's level in 2013-14 can be taken as an exceptional event, I can think of very few bowlers in my time watching cricket who have sustained that level of aggression and quality over 5 Tests on largely placid surfaces.

England batted fine against a strong SA pace attack this summer in more challenging conditions. Indian and Pakistani batsmen have done OK on Australian wickets in recent years, so no reason English batsmen can't do better.

But it wasn't just Johnson though. Yes his spells were the impactful ones but Harris and Siddle troubled England too.

Hazelwood will be tough to negotiate for the likes of Stoneman, Malan, even Root to an extent as he does tend to be a bit reckless outside his off stump early on.

New Zealand came with an arguably better batting line up and got steamrolled

 

[stephen]

I knew there was a name I was leaving off the list. Let me fix it.

but even then your batting stocks are woeful outside Cook, Ellen and the all rounders. Will that weakness be plugged in 2 years? Who knows.

 

[Groundking]

Yeah Harris and Johnson was pheonominal in 13/14, very very few sides would have fared better against that quality.

 

[stephen]

I'm starting to get the feeling that the Full-Strength Aussie Pace Attack (TM) might be getting a bit overrated around here.

Hahaha you think? The way some are banging on about them you'd think they were the reincarnation of the Windies 4 horsemen. Don't let the fact they've never even taken the field together and have a combined test experience of next to **** all stop ths hype though.

I honestly don't think they'll all play together except maybe if the WACA is a greentop. Even then it's unlikely. The game has changed since the 80s. Over rates are punished much more heavily and pitches are less lively on average.

I think that of the four quicks, Starc is the worst. He's possibly the most likely to take a wicket in the subcontinent but on Australian pitches I'd favour the other three. He does add that left arm variety though which is important.

Pattinson looks to be the best of the lot in the few tests he's had and his recent first class form. He really looks the goods. Hits the pitch hard, moves the ball and really hurries the batsmen. He ran through a very strong Queensland batting lineup earlier this year and carved up the county competition.

Hazlewood is accurate, fast and basically does what McGrath did slightly less well but with a touch more movement through the air.

Cummins won us his very first test and in the tests he's played since then has looked to be the most threatening quick bowler despite the slow, low wickets. He bounced out Rahane in one of the tests despite the pitch being dead flat and slow.

It's easy to see why people get excited. I think the prospect of having three genuinely good quicks in the same team is so much more exciting than having two genuinely good quicks in the same team. It's like in the 90s when the West Indies had Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop compared to when Bishop was injured. The extra quality quick made a massive difference to the amount of pressure the bowling attack was able to exert.

But honestly I think that Lyon is going to steal the show this Ashes.

 

[stephen]

This is still the most technically correct clean bowled I've seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpm3mZE1Rh8

Harris WAG!

I've probably watched that video fifty times and I still can't see what the ball does after pitching in real time. The super slow mo reveals that the ball both seamed AND then swung after pitching. Absolute black magic perfection by Harris.

 

[Starfighter]

I think that of the four quicks, Starc is the worst. He's possibly the most likely to take a wicket in the subcontinent but on Australian pitches I'd favour the other three. He does add that left arm variety though which is important.

He makes footmarks for Lyon to bowl into. That's the important thing.

But seriously, he's not going to advance any further unless he develops the ability to take wickets with a good length ball. Without that he'll always be the type who takes clutches of wickets but never really improves his average because there's nothing in between.

Of course he averages 28 over a longish enough career, more than can be said for many an England third bowler for the past few years.

 

[MW1304]

This is still the most technically correct clean bowled I've seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpm3mZE1Rh8

Harris WAG!

I've probably watched that video fifty times and I still can't see what the ball does after pitching in real time. The super slow mo reveals that the ball both seamed AND then swung after pitching. Absolute black magic perfection by Harris.

Can't watch it since it's not available here but I know which one it is. Never get tired of watching that ball.

 

[Top_Cat]

But seriously, he's not going to advance any further unless he develops the ability to take wickets with a good length ball. Without that he'll always be the type who takes clutches of wickets but never really improves his average because there's nothing in between.

This is literally what he did in SL last year and has since. Smith's hands probably still sting from the amount of catching practice Starc's given him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Not even as good as Ballance imo

 

[OverratedSanity]

This is still the most technically correct clean bowled I've seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpm3mZE1Rh8

Harris WAG!

I've probably watched that video fifty times and I still can't see what the ball does after pitching in real time. The super slow mo reveals that the ball both seamed AND then swung after pitching. Absolute black magic perfection by Harris.

Swung in, then seamed out and then looked like it swung out again. Absurd delivery.

 

[MW1304]

Swung in, then seamed out and then looked like it swung out again. Absurd delivery.

It does swing out again, yeah. Would literally make an S on Hawkeye.

 

[morgieb]

This is literally what he did in SL last year and has since. Smith's hands probably still sting from the amount of catching practice Starc's given him.

Yeah his SL tour was amazing. Thought that he was gonna be the best bowler in the world from that point on. Has been patchy since then though.

 

[Starfighter]

This is literally what he did in SL last year and has since. Smith's hands probably still sting from the amount of catching practice Starc's given him.

Apparently this didn't apply last summer though. He was generally mediocre and often bowled too short.