Racism - Social pariah or public consensus?

[social]

I was being sarcastic. I dont believe that just coz one's lineage has been in the nation longer than another lifelong citizen's, it doesnt give the former a right to disparage others by statements such as ' Hopefully, the South Africans that have been hurling the racial abuse in Aus will return home for this test series and never darken our door-step again'

Whether theyre visitors or recent migrants is irrelevant - if they cant abide by the laws and accepted behaviour patterns of the country then they should be punted.

Dont tell me youre getting soft in your old age.

 

[Langeveldt]

Hopefully, the South Africans that have been hurling the racial abuse in Aus will return home for this test series and never darken our door-step again

Ah yes I forgot the only people with the capacity to be racist are South African, just as the only Fascists in the world come from Italy.. So those hurling abuse at the Sri Lankans the other night are also South Africans? Darren Lehmann is a South African? Pauline Hanson is a South African? How convenient!

Im sure it doesnt take your average aussie too long to work out what Kaffir boetjie means, to give an explanation to them using Afrikaans..

To be honest though, I couldnt care less if they came from Mars, I hope they get life bans and we can forget about this..

 

[Top_Cat]

To be honest though, I couldnt care less if they came from Mars, I hope they get life bans and we can forget about this..

Which is, I'm pretty sure, what he was actually saying.

Don't let the correct interpretation get in the way of a decent rant, though!

 

[howardj]

Agreed. The people who I do have contempt for and I find quite laughable, are those who get outraged about racism or ***ism (and try to make a name for themselves by getting on their soapbox) and then, in their own day-to-day lives, turn around and make fun of other people, or discriminate against other people, because they might be overweight; have an ugly face etc. It's the hypocrisy of the above which is really quite sad.

I mean, for instance, some of the discrimination that overweight people face in the workplace and in public, is really quite appalling. I really think - as a low act - discriminating against, or humiliating, someone on the basis of any of the above is no more or less cruel than discriminating against someone, or humiliating someone, because of, their race. Discrimination, in whatever form, is humiliating and upsetting. Let's make sure we're not hypocrites in our own day-to-day lives.

 

[luckyeddie]

Agreed. The people who I do have contempt for and I find quite laughable, are those who get outraged about racism or ***ism (and try to make a name for themselves by getting on their soapbox) and then, in their own day-to-day lives, turn around and make fun of other people, or discriminate against other people, because they might be overweight; have an ugly face etc. It's the hypocrisy of the above which is really quite sad.

I mean, for instance, some of the discrimination that overweight people face in the workplace and in public, is really quite appalling. I really think - as a low act - discriminating against, or humiliating, someone on the basis of any of the above is no more or less cruel than discriminating against someone, or humiliating someone, because of, their race. Discrimination, in whatever form, is humiliating and upsetting. Let's make sure we're not hypocrites in our own day-to-day lives.

In England, it is still perfectly legal to discriminate on the grounds of age (luckily, this is being changed by law later this year). The day I turned 50 was the day I suddenly found it almost impossible to find work in computing, mainly because the popular misconception is that it's "A young person's job" - and me with over 25 years in the industry.

There are some (on this board even) who think that the worst insult they can ever throw at me is that I am old. Stupid really, but there you go.

NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!

 

[Langeveldt]

Which is, I'm pretty sure, what he was actually saying.

Don't let the correct interpretation get in the way of a decent rant, though!

Seemed more like he was denying that any Australians were involved and that these racist South Africans should get out of his country.. Maybe wrong though..

I actually think its a mixture of the two nationalities which is pretty sad..

 

[Linda]

Im sure it doesnt take your average aussie too long to work out what Kaffir boetjie means, to give an explanation to them using Afrikaans..

Haha, to be honest, I had no idea what that meant... and I doubt I know many that would. Call me stupid, but its hardly something youd normally hear said.

 

[Langeveldt]

Haha, to be honest, I had no idea what that meant... and I doubt I know many that would. Call me stupid, but its hardly something youd normally hear said.

1) How do we find new ways to annoy our tourists.. After all we can't throw cans of p*** at Symmo because he's in the commentary box!

2) Oh yeah, those silly South Africans don't like black people! How did we forget mate?

3) Looks up racial slur on the internet

4) Result

I'm just struggling to see why Saffers would call their own cricket team Kaffir boetjies, it doesn't really wash!

 

[social]

Seemed more like he was denying that any Australians were involved and that these racist South Africans should get out of his country.. Maybe wrong though..

I actually think its a mixture of the two nationalities which is pretty sad..

There is a 99.99% probability that at least some of the comments in Perth were made by people of SA origin.

Why?

Because our school system doesnt teach Afrikaans and, to the best of my knowledge, doesnt delve into the everyday lives of people in the townships of SA.

Given that, kick those on visas out of the country and impose massive penalties on the rest. Simple!

BTW, nothing in these sentiments is meant to imply that all SA or even a great number are racists.

Unfortunately, it's blatantly obvious that some of those that are attended that match and were party to those comments.

NB, see cricinfo's feedback on this issue for evidence from a guy who was actually at the ground and heard the comments being made.

 

[Top_Cat]

1) How do we find new ways to annoy our tourists.. After all we can't throw cans of p*** at Symmo because he's in the commentary box!

2) Oh yeah, those silly South Africans don't like black people! How did we forget mate?

3) Looks up racial slur on the internet

4) Result

I'm just struggling to see why Saffers would call their own cricket team Kaffir boetjies, it doesn't really wash!

Neither does the above. Seriously man, if one is small-minded enough to want to insult a team, you honestly reckon people are going to bother looking up an insult on the net just to get it right? And, they'd have to pronounce it right too; how would they know just looking it up? Certainly the last time I heard the word Kaffir (before this whole thing, I didn't even know how it was spelt) in this country was the last time I watched Lethal Weapon and that evil Saffie in it.

Why would any ex-pats bag their own team? Say you've got a group of racist people who left SA because Apartheid was being booted and obviously, what with the millions of dollars being spent and words such as the above becoming EXTREMELY unfashionable, they may feel a little threatened. Obviously they'd have a bit of a hankering for the old ways and would feel a wee bit bitter about the changes which occurred in their country, forcing them (in their eyes) to move to the other side of the world. Such situations breed resentment, especially when thought-prcesses like those of the racist are so entrenched that to imagine otherwise is unthinkable.

And when they see a team from South Africa, are they going to think "Wow, time to support my national team! Go SA!" or "The new team is just a bunch of Kaffir boetjies! SA has gone to crap ever since Kaffirs were given any power. Y'know, in the old days, things were much better........." etc. etc. etc.

Not saying this applies to the whole group at all but it's more logical that some of them harboured this sort of resentment than your average Aussie yobbo having the presense of mind to look up a word which ain't exactly in common use in Australia just to ensure they got their insults right.

 

[Shounak]

I'm just struggling to see why Saffers would call their own cricket team Kaffir boetjies, it doesn't really wash!

Why not? Kaffir Boetjie seems like the American equivalent of n!gga lover..

Maybe the ex-pat WA Saffers don't like a.) blacks playing in the team and b.) white people playing with the black people..

Calling the blacks kaffirs and the whites, kaffir boetjies.. I'm sure a lot of people still hold onto some of the apartheid sentiment..

Just hazarding a guess as to why Saffers call their own "Kaffir boetjies".. It seems to make sense..

Very sad if it is true..

 

[Langeveldt]

Interesting, not that I have any experience of SA expats, but it seems as if we've got rid of all our racists at least if the above is true.. Shame for whoever has to put up with them!

 

[wpdavid]

1) How do we find new ways to annoy our tourists.. After all we can't throw cans of p*** at Symmo because he's in the commentary box!

2) Oh yeah, those silly South Africans don't like black people! How did we forget mate?

3) Looks up racial slur on the internet

4) Result

I'm just struggling to see why Saffers would call their own cricket team Kaffir boetjies, it doesn't really wash!

Really? Given the vocabulary used, the likeliest culprits are a bunch of expats who think their country has gone to the dogs since the arrival of majority rule, who yearn for the good old days when the blacks knew their place (which certainly wasn't in any of the national teams) and would probably prefer Mandela to still be incarcerated in Robin Island.

No-one's saying all Saffies are racists. No-one's saying no racists exist elsewhere. But the sort of characters I described do exist. Over here, there is a rather charmless organisation called the Springbok Club who would subscribe to all of that and more.

To our shame, here in England we've usually been in denial about racism. Trouble is, that's often the approach elsewhre too, as we've seen on this thread. Better mb far to face up to reality and make sure the offending scum are dealt with properly.

 

[Langeveldt]

Really? Given the vocabulary used, the likeliest culprits are a bunch of expats who think their country has gone to the dogs since the arrival of majority rule, who yearn for the good old days when the blacks knew their place (which certainly wasn't in any of the national teams) and would probably prefer Mandela to still be incarcerated in Robin Island.

No-one's saying all Saffies are racists. No-one's saying no racists exist elsewhere. But the sort of characters I described do exist. Over here, there is a rather charmless organisation called the Springbok Club who would subscribe to all of that and more.

To our shame, here in England we've usually been in denial about racism. Trouble is, that's often the approach elsewhre too, as we've seen on this thread. Better mb far to face up to reality and make sure the offending scum are dealt with properly.

In South Africa its pretty impossible to harbour that sort of attitude these days, at least openly.. I guess thats one of the reason we've gotten rid of our racist elements, and thank god for that too.. Only problem is they have found strength in Perth where it seems one can express their views a bit more openly..

And yeah I'm in England at the moment, and haven't been to a place that is so in denial about racism.. Im sick and tired of being asked questions like "So do you still have those black slaves/do they live in mud huts/do you let them teach the kids" etc. I tend to play along with their ignorance because I find it interesting, but you're right its very much a global thing..

 

[JASON]

Why would any ex-pats bag their own team?

I am not trying to score a cheap point here, but most South Africans in Australia would support Australia more than SA.

This is because they are pretty much assimilated into main stream Australian society and feel part of the mainstream (and valued in Aussie society) . They readily swap their identity and hence have no problem identifying with Australia than SA.

They therefore feel more Australian than South African . (this is reflected also in crowd attendances in games between SA and Australia or SA and Sri Lanka - by this I mean the number identifying and cheering for SA are a miniscule compared to the number cheering for SL )

Sri Lankans on the other hand will always identify themselves as such and will support their Team whether they lived in Australia, America, NZ or even the Moon.
The vast majority of Sri Lankans are not asimilated into mainstream Australia and as such struggle with their identity in Australia, they will not want to or feel comfortable to identify with their Australian identity .

This is clearly reflected in attendances at games where SL fans will be cheering for and waving SL flags , while some South Africans may cheer for SA the majority would identify with Australia (their new identity) and could not care much between the two teams (SA /Australia)

 

[Linda]

Yeah my (ex) stepdad was a South African, lived here for 8 years and supported Australia. Same with a old teacher of mine.

Small, irrelevant point, but meh.

 

[C_C]

Whether theyre visitors or recent migrants is irrelevant - if they cant abide by the laws and accepted behaviour patterns of the country then they should be punted.

Dont tell me youre getting soft in your old age.

Punted to where ? Where do you 'punt off' citizens of your own nation ? Some of them are just as much 'aussie' as you are in all probability.

 

[luckyeddie]

Punted to where ? Where do you 'punt off' citizens of your own nation ? Some of them are just as much 'aussie' as you are in all probability.

The problem with 'punting off' is exactly that - who gets punted and where to?

The old 'go back to your own country' mantra (meaning country of origin or ancestry) was the chant of the racists in the 1960's.

 

[luckyeddie]

Yeah my (ex) stepdad was a South African, lived here for 8 years and supported Australia. Same with a old teacher of mine.

Small, irrelevant point, but meh.

If they integrated well, as you seem to be suggesting, it's a huge, very relevant point indeed about accepting (note: not assimilating, being absorbed into or even adsorbed by) a new culture.

 

[C_C]

The problem with 'punting off' is exactly that - who gets punted and where to?

The old 'go back to your own country' mantra (meaning country of origin or ancestry) was the chant of the racists in the 1960's.

Exactly!
With this whole punt-off thing, while we are at it, why dont we also punt back all european descendants in OZ back to europe, all the black north americans back to africa, get the hungarians to pack up and leave for mongolia, kick me out of Canada all the way back to India..................an endless chain of insanity

PS: It is the same kind of comments i've noticed from Social in the past and i've seen some likeness between his comments and the comments espoused by some racist organisations.