Racism - Social pariah or public consensus?

[James]

Please cut the Bush, Iraq, etc stuff out of this thread, keep it on topic please!

 

[Complicated]

Ofcourse I comdemn the Nazi party. But you're taking this to an extreme and ignoring the spirits it's intended in, you can do that with any arguement, but it won't ever be very convincing.

The point I'm trying to make is I don't personally condemn every citizen of Germany living during the 1940's who was over 30 as being genocidial lunatics. That might be a convenient generalisation but probably ridiculously off base. And in the same vein its just as unsatisfactory to comdemn 'anglo' Australian's (or westerners) above 50 for being racist. I don't think is going anywhere though =) so I'll stop posting on this point.

 

[James]

Welcome to the forum Complicated, please re-read my above message.

 

[luckyeddie]

Errr, I think the word you were looking for was "ovine".

You let him pleasure what he wants.

This is, however, a cricket board, consequently the discussion on racism and bestiality ought to be kept within the confines of cricket. If not, the thread ought to be moved into 'Off Topic'.

 

[JASON]

I don't have a problem with this thread staying open providing the discussion is of a reasonable fashion.

All countries suffer from some form of racism, there's no escaping it unfortunately . You'll probably find that racists are un-educated un-employed idiots and people who I have no time for what so ever.

Well said. Why should it be considered significant when it involves Colour criterion .

There are other forms of racism based on differences of language , Culture , regionalism,secularism, oppression of women, wealth, power.. etc... some of these are far worse and involve life and death for those affected... I don't think any part of the world should think they are sacred or holier than others ... and point fingers...

It is just that some societies are open and we are able to discuss these while others keep these issues hidden in the closet .

 

[C_C]

There are other forms of racism based on differences of language , Culture , regionalism,secularism, oppression of women, wealth, power.. etc... some of these are far worse and involve life and death for those affected... I don't think any part of the world should think they are sacred or holier than others ... and point fingers...

How is discrimination based on culture/region/secularism etc. be construed as racism ?
How is (for example) Denmark disliking Norway on cultural grounds be deemed racist ?
Race pertains to genetics- be it carrier of a certain genome or the fuzzier 'certain skin color/bone structure'.
All forms of discriminations are abhorrable but all forms of discrimination arnt racism.

 

[social]

How is discrimination based on culture/region/secularism etc. be construed as racism ?
How is (for example) Denmark disliking Norway on cultural grounds be deemed racist ?
Race pertains to genetics- be it carrier of a certain genome or the fuzzier 'certain skin color/bone structure'.
All forms of discriminations are abhorrable but all forms of discrimination arnt racism.

As you say, racism is just another form of discrimination.

However, if you want to narrow the definition of racism to the nth degree, then of course countries like Aus appear more guilty than others.

Fortunately, most of the world has a more balanced view and recognises discrimination as a global problem, no matter what form it takes.

 

[C_C]

However, if you want to narrow the definition of racism to the nth degree, then of course countries like Aus appear more guilty than others.

I am not narrowing it at all.
Racism pertains to race- definition of race is based ideally on genetics ( such as the case of Israeli racism) but often in accordance to skin tones/bone structure.

That is the definition of racism. A Pakistani guy yelling at another for being of a lower cast is not racism because for one they are of the same race and for two, the derogatory comments are not pertaining to race.

And yes, discrimination is a global problem- but some regions have far more trouble with the problem than others.

 

[C_C]

Ofcourse I comdemn the Nazi party. But you're taking this to an extreme and ignoring the spirits it's intended in, you can do that with any arguement, but it won't ever be very convincing.

The point I'm trying to make is I don't personally condemn every citizen of Germany living during the 1940's who was over 30 as being genocidial lunatics. That might be a convenient generalisation but probably ridiculously off base. And in the same vein its just as unsatisfactory to comdemn 'anglo' Australian's (or westerners) above 50 for being racist. I don't think is going anywhere though =) so I'll stop posting on this point.

I am not taking this to an extreme- i am merely asking you where the 'thin red line' is .
To what extent can one normalise behaviour simply because one hasnt experienced it personally ?

 

[Langeveldt]

Interesting to see Haydos talk about copping it in South Africa..

That is if we get any crowds for the test matches, usually its pitiful, like being shouted at by three men and two dogs..

Interesting to see a lot of Aussie feedback on cricinfo about stones and glass houses.. I think a lot of Aussies seem to be forgetting the fact that they have a very racist history as well.. And it seems to be in continuing really.. Or maybe its just a vocal minority

To me, most of the guys being taunted with "kaffir" comments appear to be Anglos who've spent some time at the beach. Go ahead and boycott, you goat - you need us MUCH more than we need you. And when it comes to racism ... well, there's a little something about stones and glasshouses

No prizes for guessing what BJ stands for..

 

[social]

Interesting to see Haydos talk about copping it in South Africa..

That is if we get any crowds for the test matches, usually its pitiful, like being shouted at by three men and two dogs..

Interesting to see a lot of Aussie feedback on cricinfo about stones and glass houses.. I think a lot of Aussies seem to be forgetting the fact that they have a very racist history as well.. And it seems to be in continuing really.. Or maybe its just a vocal minority



No prizes for guessing what BJ stands for..

Hopefully, the South Africans that have been hurling the racial abuse in Aus will return home for this test series and never darken our door-step again

 

[luckyeddie]

Hopefully, the South Africans that have been hurling the racial abuse in Aus will return home for this test series and never darken our door-step again

I'm trying to get my head around the fact that they have travelled to Australia just to shout racial abuse at South Africans.

Then I look at the history of football hooliganism in England and it all becomes clear.

 

[Jason_M]

So what if you get called names while fielding in the outfield, there was a time when players just went along with it and had a laugh at the drunken idiot making a fool of himself, the fact that some of the SA players have complained says more about them than the fools on in the stands.

 

[social]

I'm trying to get my head around the fact that they have travelled to Australia just to shout racial abuse at South Africans.

Then I look at the history of football hooliganism in England and it all becomes clear.

They might very well be residents of Aus. Perth, in particular, has a large SA expat community.

However, the fact that the abuse was hurled in Afrikaans at both whites and coloreds and made reference to life in the "rainbow" communities of the colored townships can only draw one conclusion as to the origins of these "people."

The average Aus red-neck would be more likely to convey his feelings as follows:

glug, glug, "you black so-and-so", stumble, stumble, fall over.

 

[Fusion]

They might very well be residents of Aus. Perth, in particular, has a large SA expat community.

However, the fact that the abuse was hurled in Afrikaans at both whites and coloreds and made reference to life in the "rainbow" communities of the colored townships can only draw one conclusion as to the origins of these "people."

The average Aus red-neck would be more likely to convey his feelings as follows:

glug, glug, "you black so-and-so", stumble, stumble, fall over.

Peter English in his article at Cricinfo bunks this RIDICULOUS excuse very soundly.

 

[social]

Peter English in his article at Cricinfo bunks this RIDICULOUS excuse very soundly.

Get the SA team to change the basis of their complaint. They are the ones that complained about remarks made in Afrikaans.

 

[C_C]

Get the SA team to change the basis of their complaint. They are the ones that complained about remarks made in Afrikaans.

People living on your shores are the responsibility of the nation of residence. If these south africans expats/immigrants should pack up and leave for hurling abuse in Afrikaans, the average redneck Aussie should be booted back to the british Isles.

 

[BoyBrumby]

People living on your shores are the responsibility of the nation of residence. If these south africans expats/immigrants should pack up and leave for hurling abuse in Afrikaans, the average redneck Aussie should be booted back to the british Isles.

WTF?! After (possibly) 5 or 6 generations of antecedents born in Australia? I think not. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that dodgy conceptions of "blood" are the ultimate arbiters of nationality?

 

[C_C]

WTF?! After (possibly) 5 or 6 generations of antecedents born in Australia? I think not. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that dodgy conceptions of "blood" are the ultimate arbiters of nationality?

I was being sarcastic. I dont believe that just coz one's lineage has been in the nation longer than another lifelong citizen's, it doesnt give the former a right to disparage others by statements such as ' Hopefully, the South Africans that have been hurling the racial abuse in Aus will return home for this test series and never darken our door-step again'

 

[luckyeddie]

People living on your shores are the responsibility of the nation of residence. If these south africans expats/immigrants should pack up and leave for hurling abuse in Afrikaans, the average redneck Aussie should be booted back to the british Isles.

Don't you dare.

Have you seen the price of bread over here these days?