*Official* West Indies in Zimbabwe Thread

[garage flower]

For better or worse Gayle and Hinds are the only "specialist" openers on tour. If we drop either of them we'd be forced into playing a middle order batsman out of position. Ganga is a middle order batsman and indisputably the 4th best of 4 middle order bats currently in the team.

If we do go for the 5-1-1-4 lineup, I think Ganga has to be the one to make way.

Would either of you go for the 5 bats + Banks lineup?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

1/ Hinds is not a specialist opener. He's a specialist #3 batsman who has been forced into opening the batting. He still feels most confortable at 3 - where he plays for Jamaica.

2/ Ganga is a specialist opener. He only really converted to a middle order batsman a couple of seasons back and that was to allow two other specialist openers (Imran Jan and Andy Jackson) in the T&T team to play in position. He was the captain at the time.

Ideally I would like the 5 bats, Banks, Jacobs, pace lineup; but there is no batsman there who I would drop. Gayle is the only option in my mind, but he is the #1 opening batsman for WI.

 

[Mister Wright]

Replace Dillon for one of the quicks. I think he has to play.

Although I'm sure Chanderpaul will find some kind of way to get injured, he's the Jason Gillespie of West Indies cricket.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Although I'm sure Chanderpaul will find some kind of way to get injured, he's the Jason Gillespie of West Indies cricket.

Thanks for the jinx. :!( :P

Dillon likely play, but I fear that Jerome Taylor will be the one to miss out IF we play 6 bats. Collymore will miss out for Banks unless we drop a batsman.

Drop Jacobs.

 

[garage flower]

1/ Hinds is not a specialist opener. He's a specialist #3 batsman who has been forced into opening the batting. He still feels most confortable at 3 - where he plays for Jamaica.

2/ Ganga is a specialist opener. He only really converted to a middle order batsman a couple of seasons back and that was to allow two other specialist openers (Imran Jan and Andy Jackson) in the T&T team to play in position. He was the captain at the time.

Ideally I would like the 5 bats, Banks, Jacobs, pace lineup; but there is no batsman there who I would drop. Gayle is the only option in my mind, but he is the #1 opening batsman for WI.

Mr M, I know Ganga was an opening bat for Trini and the Windies and that Hinds bats at 3 for Jamaica, but they have had their (limited) test match success as a middle order bat/opener respectively.

If 5 bats is, as you acknowledge, the best option and if we want players to play in the positions in which they've earned international selection, then Ganga has to go.

 

[garage flower]

Damn! Just checked my facts (shouldn't I have done that before I posted?!) and Hinds does average slightly more at 3 in tests than he does as an opener (though his "away" average at 3 is below 30). Ganga though, as you'll know, is statistically far worse as an opener (averages 21-ish) than he is at 3 (36.7).

It would be nice to have a more technically correct opener, with the added bonus of a left/right combo, but I'd still stick with the status quo at this stage.

Having said that, I don't have much confidence in the Gayle/Hinds combo (or anything else for that matter) against the Proteas.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Gayle is good player and when he finds form (in the ODI's perhaps?) it will carry him.

Of course Ganga stats at Test level are better at 3! He just started to bat at 3 this year, with a successful return. Ganga was thrust into the team WAY too young and regardless of where he's had his success in 3 of his last 11 Test innings, he is an opening batsman. He used to open since his schoolboy days.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

If 5 bats is, as you acknowledge, the best option and if we want players to play in the positions in which they've earned international selection, then Ganga has to go.

No. If Ganga can easily move up and replace either Hinds or Gayle with Sarwan batting at 3 (where he has had good success) with Lara, Chanders, Banks, Jacobs etc etc. I think that the lineup will be similar to this...

CH Gayle
WW Hinds
D Ganga
BC Lara
RR Sarwan
S Chanderpaul
RD Jacobs
OAC Banks
VC Drakes
M Dillon/JE Taylor
FH Edwards

I really think that something is wrong with Collymore and that he should be rested and the problem sorted. That said, I wouldn't be surprised (nor too disappointed) if he is picked ahead of Dillon and Taylor.

The WICB are fools if they don't play Banks.

 

[Langeveldt]

My elevens (batting order)

WI

1.D Ganga
2.C Gayle
3.S Chanderpaul
4.B Lara
5.R Sarwan
6.R Jacobs
7.V Drakes
8.O Banks
9.M Dillon
10.J Taylor
11.F Edwards

ZIM - Unchanged

 

[Craig]

Errr....Ganga bats at number 2 with Gayle first up.

I would definatly have Ronnie Sarwan at 3 as he has the technique to bat there, and I think Shiv is more suited at 5.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

My elevens (batting order)

WI

1.D Ganga
2.C Gayle
3.S Chanderpaul
4.B Lara
5.R Sarwan
6.R Jacobs
7.V Drakes
8.O Banks
9.M Dillon
10.J Taylor
11.F Edwards

ZIM - Unchanged

Why is Drakes above Banks??? Who would let Drakes near the #7 position in any form of cricket???

 

[Richard]

Of course Ganga stats at Test level are better at 3! He just started to bat at 3 this year, with a successful return... and regardless of where he's had his success in 3 of his last 11 Test innings, he is an opening batsman. He used to open since his schoolboy days.

This argument has distinct shades of Mark Butcher.
In fact, there's little different in their cases.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Banks and Dillon in, Taylor out.

 

[Rik]

This argument has distinct shades of Mark Butcher.
In fact, there's little different in their cases.

In the fact that both are natural openers who would probably do just as well if they were asked to open now, as they have been doing at number 3...

I can't see how picking Wavell Hinds as an opener is helping, he scored his highest Test score, 165, at number 3 and he doesn't even open for Jamaica!!!

 

[Rik]

Why is Drakes above Banks??? Who would let Drakes near the #7 position in any form of cricket???

I think Notts did when he played for them...

 

[garage flower]

Of course Ganga stats at Test level are better at 3! He just started to bat at 3 this year, with a successful return... He used to open since his schoolboy days.

????Well isn't that exactly the point?! He's had success since he returned to bat at number 3.

I understand that what you're saying is he's a better player now than he was when he was originally selected (as an opener) and so his stats are bound to be better at 3, but there's an equally logical argument that says he's had more success because he's batting at 3.

Don't think his position as a schoolboy cricketer has the slightest relevance.

Anyway looks like Gayle and Hinds are doing the business. With a decent platform and Banks down at 8, we should get at least 500.

 

[garage flower]

I can't see how picking Wavell Hinds as an opener is helping, he scored his highest Test score, 165, at number 3 and he doesn't even open for Jamaica!!!

The 165 was a long time ago. Since then, he's had good series in Australia and India (doesn't get much harder than that) opening the batting.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

????Well isn't that exactly the point?! He's had success since he returned to bat at number 3.

The fact is that he's only batted at 3! He's had moderate success since his return, perhaps he could be much better opening. That said, Hinds seems very much up to the task this morning.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Don't think his position as a schoolboy cricketer has the slightest relevance.

By saying 'since' schoolboy days, I was suggesting his entire career...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

BTW, a great injustice was done in Drakes not being included. :!(