***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand

[sirjeremy11]

Average less than 48 in Test cricket?

I know some people say ODI form has nothing to do with test match form (the NZ selectors are four of them), but since the 3rd Hadlee Chappell trophy match (Auckland 2005) where he scored 55, his ODI avg has fallen from 39.2, to 30.46 in 22 matches. In those matches, he has avged 18.33, scoring 330 runs with one 50. Pretty poor by anyones standards.

Add to that the fact that in his last two tests (against Zim), he made 20 and 13.

I fail to see what an average of 48 has to do with it. If it was 48 and rising, sure. If he was looking good at the crease, sure. If he was an opener, sure. The last three statements are all in the negative.

 

[sirjeremy11]

I just hope Fleming doesn't hurt Vincent's Test career like he did Sinclair's.

Not too sure why it's Fleming's fault what happened to Sinclair, would of thought it was more to do with the fact he was fairly inconsistent. Maybe to do with the fact he was dropped, recalled etc etc etc etc etc.

I do hope Vincent gets a better crack at this. All reports are this morning that he would love to play wherever, and this whole "I don't want to open" is a preference, not a "if I can't bat 4, 5, or 6, I'm not playing". He is upset as it sounds like Hamish Marshall is more comitted to the team then him. Poor guy.

 

[MoxPearl]

Michael Mason apart from looking like he's probably married to his mum

 

[Ming]

I know some people say ODI form has nothing to do with test match form (the NZ selectors are four of them), but since the 3rd Hadlee Chappell trophy match (Auckland 2005) where he scored 55, his ODI avg has fallen from 39.2, to 30.46 in 22 matches. In those matches, he has avged 18.33, scoring 330 runs with one 50. Pretty poor by anyones standards.

Add to that the fact that in his last two tests (against Zim), he made 20 and 13.

I fail to see what an average of 48 has to do with it. If it was 48 and rising, sure. If he was looking good at the crease, sure. If he was an opener, sure. The last three statements are all in the negative.

IMO, Marshall has regained his form. He's had limited opportunities of late, but when he did come in early in ODIs, he has played well. He played a handy 40-odd knock in Christchurch.

 

[sirjeremy11]

IMO, Marshall has regained his form. He's had limited opportunities of late, but when he did come in early in ODIs, he has played well. He played a handy 40-odd knock in Christchurch.

IMO, I am sick of seeing guys being expected to regain their form in international cricket. Especially in this situation. Most of his recent innings have been "Go out and hit us a few" type situations.

And if that last over from Fidel Edwards where Marshall couldn't get bat on it shows he has regained his form...

 

[Ming]

Oh great he missed a few balls...whoopidido....

 

[The Maestro]

When did "world-class" suddenly come into it? You never mentioned that in your first post. A classic case of shifting the goalposts to suit your argument.

I didnt think I needed mention that they needed to world class because it went without saying, otherwise I would have mentioned Rangi Law from my intermediate school days who was a handy off spinner

And I wasnt exactly "argueing" with you anyway, ho hum...I guess being in Oamaru means you are looking for anything to pass the time huh :P

 

[Smudge]

I didnt think I needed mention that they needed to world class because it went without saying, otherwise I would have mentioned Rangi Law from my intermediate school days who was a handy off spinner

Now you're just conjuring up something totally different. I produced three players of Maori heritage who have played international cricket. You suddenly change the requirements to having to be world-class, and now you're going to the other extreme.

And I wasnt exactly "argueing" with you anyway, ho hum...I guess being in Oamaru means you are looking for anything to pass the time huh :P

Another cheap shot. Stick to the topic.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

And if that last over from Fidel Edwards where Marshall couldn't get bat on it shows he has regained his form...

Because scoring runs against good death bowling isn't necessarily an indication of form maybe?
Also, not scoring runs against good death bowling should do nothing to state that a player is out of Test match form.

 

[sirjeremy11]

Because scoring runs against good death bowling isn't necessarily an indication of form maybe?
Also, not scoring runs against good death bowling should do nothing to state that a player is out of Test match form.

Sure, he didn't score runs off that last over (which was good), but he didn't get near it, and it looked to me like he had no idea how to. Looked like his confidence was a bit bung to me.

 

[sirjeremy11]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=4&ObjectID=10371547

Brilliant player. Big mouth. Has Lara been talking to Ricky Ponting again or something?

Basically saying NZer's should have more respect for the Windies because they have a greater cricketing history. So we should not be allowed to bag them. Even if they are not that good at the moment.

Somebody needs to live in the now.

 

[sirjeremy11]

As time is going by, and the first game is approaching, I am sort of excited to see how Mills and Marshall go. And suddenly I don't think it is such a bad idea.

 

[Kippax]

Interesting to hear Vincent say he's becoming a father in 4-5 weeks and would miss the start of the SA tour, if selected. Presumably this spices up the remaining rounds of the SC as Sinclair, Papps, Taylor and Ryder shoot for a place in that squad as the batting cover.

"Has to be Papps. Your top 3 needs the cover, Kippax, and he's a FC 'keeper to boot." - Graeme Smith.

 

[Kippax]

Not too sure why it's Fleming's fault what happened to Sinclair, would of thought it was more to do with the fact he was fairly inconsistent. Maybe to do with the fact he was dropped, recalled etc etc etc etc etc.

Pretty sure Macka was alluding to the theory of Fleming being willing to open if it gets his best friends in the side (McMillan, Astle in the past), but not others (Sinclair, Vincent).

 

[Kippax]

Total agree with you on all points there. I haven't really been that impressed with Peter Fulton he has some obvious deficiancies in his range of shots, his fielding and his running between the wickets. It will be interesting to see how he fields in the test matches being the fact that he is been subbed off from fielding the majority of the time in the ODI's. I think it would have been a much better idea to stick with vincent and let him bat in the middle order where he wishes to bat as he is a much better play than fulton, even though his shot selection can be quite rash.

Sounds like you've been listening to that talkback caller Dave on Radio Sport (the guy with a jockey's voice who apparently rings up to 4 times a day). The whole 'Fulton is too limited a player' argument is far too hasty a judgement IMO. Unfashionable performers like Andrew Jones, Richardson, etc. all eventually got a chance through weight of runs; Fulton shouldn't suddenly be NZ's exception.

Besides, Fulton should've been irrelevant to this whole backlash IMO. Vincent's implied he wishes to bat # 4 or lower, while the current panel (or the skipper himself) seemingly dictate all future test sides are selected around Fleming being no higher than # 4. If Vincent bats at # 3 for Auckland in the coming weeks, then I'd agree, Fulton's in his sights.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=4&ObjectID=10371547

Brilliant player. Big mouth. Has Lara been talking to Ricky Ponting again or something?

Basically saying NZer's should have more respect for the Windies because they have a greater cricketing history. So we should not be allowed to bag them. Even if they are not that good at the moment.

Somebody needs to live in the now.

What's the big deal?

To compare those comments to some of Ricky Ponting's is disgraceful. Brian Lara has every right to ask for respect for "West Indies cricket". Perhaps he went over the top with this: "I just thought it was a bit disrespectful for a country that has a greater cricketing history than their hosts", but I still ask, what's the big deal?

Brian Lara never said that the West Indies is a sensational team at the moment, but I think he's more addressing the sensationalists who suggest things such as the West Indies being unfit to play international cricket.

It would take a mighty spin to portray those comments as anything near the trash that Ponting spouts.

 

[James]

I personally think good on Brian Lara for coming out with some hard words. It's about time someone from their camp did to try and fire up the team. He probably made the difference in the 5th ODI too, even though he wasn't playing. Just having some leadership in the environment. It's a real shame the West Indies greats of the past haven't got jobs in and around the tour party.

If the West Indies can see off Shane Bond with the new ball they stand an excellent chance in this test series I reckon.

 

[Ming]

Let's just forget about Vettori while we're at it too...

 

[sirjeremy11]

Pretty sure Macka was alluding to the theory of Fleming being willing to open if it gets his best friends in the side (McMillan, Astle in the past), but not others (Sinclair, Vincent).

Ah. An interesting theory I have not thought of. Not entirely out of the question is it?

 

[sirjeremy11]

What's the big deal?

To compare those comments to some of Ricky Ponting's is disgraceful. Brian Lara has every right to ask for respect for "West Indies cricket". Perhaps he went over the top with this: "I just thought it was a bit disrespectful for a country that has a greater cricketing history than their hosts", but I still ask, what's the big deal?

Brian Lara never said that the West Indies is a sensational team at the moment, but I think he's more addressing the sensationalists who suggest things such as the West Indies being unfit to play international cricket.

It would take a mighty spin to portray those comments as anything near the trash that Ponting spouts.

What's the big deal??!!

Can you imagine if Ponting had said to the British media after the loss to Bangladesh "Get off our backs. We have produced legends of the game. What have they done? Nothing."?

Or Nasser had said something similar in the late 90's when England were losing (to most teams)?

It was a stupid thing to say. Harsh words are fine. Words to fire up your team are fine. But stupid words are just stupid. How about a "I'm very disappointed in the boys performance. They are capable of so much more. Your boys have performed well". Not a virtual "I don't see what the big deal is. Up until ten years ago, we were thrashing you. Our history is better than yours so shut your mouth".

Lara is just lashing out because his team have lost 19 of their past 22 one-day internationals and 12 of their most recent 15 tests, including the last six consecutively. Why should the media not talk about that? This is the once great West Indies we are talking here. The team, who two tours ago, came here and thrashed the pants off us. Why would we not want to talk about it, to ask why? Lara took a cheap shot at our poor cricket history because he cannot defend the recent performance of the WI side vs the recent NZ side.

Plus, the reason I compared him to Ponting is that they are both brilliant batsmen. Ponting happens to say dumb stuff under pressure (much like George W), and I think Lara has given us motivation here to write a nice new piece of cricketing history.

Anyway, this series is mainly interesting to me as we have not performed that well in tests ourselves in recent times.